Public Health and Public Safety Committee 9-11-24
Below is a transcript from the Public Health and Public Safety Committee meeting on 9-11-24 (September 11th, 2024) in Somerville, Massachusetts. You can find the video and agenda for this meeting at the link above.
Apologies for any and all names being incorrect or any other transcription issues. The contents should be pretty much correct, the part that the AI struggles a bit more with is always inferring correctly who is speaking. The transcript is best-effort and was generated and cleaned up via AI tools without significant attempts to correct names. This may be improved in the future, but will never be perfect.
The relevant policy order being discussed and referenced throughout the meeting is Order 215 De-prioritization of Drug Arrests.
Chair McLaughlin: All right, I declare this meeting of Public Health and Safety to order. Please note that pursuant to Chapter 2 of the Acts of 2023 this meeting of the City Council will be conducted via remote participation. We'll post an audio, video, recording, transcript, or other record on the City's sub-level website and government access channels. Individuals with disabilities who need aids and services can request written materials in alternate formats or reasonable modifications. You can contact the City of Somerville at 617-625-6600 extension 2059-488@somervillema.gov. Mr. Clerk, can you please call the roll?
Clerk: This is a roll call. Councillor Saeed.
Councillor Saeed: Present.
Clerk: Councillor Davis.
Councillor Davis: Here.
Clerk: Councillor McLaughlin.
Chair McLaughlin: Here.
Clerk: Mr. Chair, all members are present. We have a quorum.
Chair McLaughlin: All right, can we read the first item? Well, yes, let's approve the minutes. The first item.
Clerk: Approval of the minutes of the Public Health and Public Safety meeting of June 5, 2024.
Chair McLaughlin: Let's do a roll call vote. On the item, Councillor Saeed.
Councillor Saeed: Yes.
Chair McLaughlin: Councillor Davis.
Councillor Davis: Yes.
Chair McLaughlin: Councillor McLaughlin.
Chair McLaughlin: Yes.
Clerk: Mr. Chair, all members have voted to approve those minutes.
Chair McLaughlin: All right, and welcome everyone to the public. From the public, I see about 81 people in attendance, which is the highest Public Health and Safety meeting attendance we've had so far in the City. For those of you who have not attended these meetings before, I've been the Chair for the past year or so and have made homelessness the monthly issue. Every month we discuss homelessness issues in the community, and I do allow speaking priority for people at the public at some point. I will go into addressing that in a second. But this is the committee where we basically ask questions from the City. We will have a number of people from the Police Department, from Public Health to address the ongoing issues in the community. And tonight, I know a lot of people are here to talk about Davis Square specifically.
So I'd like to lay out some additional rules that we have for this committee. Generally try to keep the meeting within two hours. I expect this probably will last longer than that, but I like to keep that framework just so we keep the conversation moving. I'll lay out an order of speaking priority. We're going to have the members from the City government, the staff, as well as members from the Somerville Homeless Coalition, give us an update on what's going on to address homelessness. Committee members, that's myself and the two Councillors on this committee, can ask questions as they like and make comments. And City staff and service providers will be given ample opportunity to speak. I do allow public comment to this, but to clarify something for people, this is not a formal public hearing. The difference being that in order to speak, a person with a public needs sponsorship from two-thirds of the Council, which means two out of three of us, would need to approve speaking. And I do allow this, but we'll keep it within reason. I would ask people to keep their comments short and polite and just keep things in a good order. I want to recognize people, make sure they know that they can have a voice tonight, but I just want to clarify that this is not a formal public hearing.
I know people have talked to Ward 7 Councillor Pineda-Newfeld about a public hearing, and I want to give people a voice tonight, but I would also add that if the goal is to hear from the Mayor directly, I would just point out that the City Council is the second body of government. We're separate from her, so even having a public hearing would not necessarily mean she would be in attendance for that meeting. So I would encourage you all to contact the Mayor's office directly. If you wish to speak to the City Council, we can do that tonight. And when I do allow public comment, please give me a full name and address. All conversations must be through the Chair. So that means if you want to ask a question or make a comment, say through the Chair. Do not address individuals on the committee or on the Council or members from the City staff. This meeting is for public information specifically, what has happened and what will happen. We don't really get into an idea session sort of thing where we just want to have a transparent discussion about homelessness in the city.
So with that said, I would like to start with items regarding Davis Square first, and then we do have more specific items discussing issues like safe consumption sites and other ways to address substance abuse. So Mr. Clerk, if you can please read the items regarding Davis Square first.
Clerk: Agenda number seven, a resolution by Councilor Pineda-Newfeld that the administration discuss with this Council, its policies and plans to address the widespread and open drug use in Davis Square. And agenda number eight, a resolution by Councilor Pineda-Newfeld that the administration discuss with this Council, the programs and services being offered to the unhoused population in Davis Square.
Chair McLaughlin: All right, Councilor Davis, yes.
Councillor Davis: Mr. Chair, could we also take, even though there are items here that reference Seven Hills Park, that being in Davis Square, could we take those up as well, please?
Chair McLaughlin: Yes, please. Can you read those too, Mr. Clerk?
Clerk: Agenda number six, a resolution by Councilor Pineda-Newfeld that the administration greatly increase the trash and needle pickup in and around Davis Square, including Seven Hills Park and the community path.
Councillor Davis: Mr. Chair, could we take another shot at this? I'd like to take up items four, five, six, seven, and eight together.
Chair McLaughlin: Okay, we have six, seven, and eight.
Clerk: Item four, a resolution by Councilor Davis that the administration update the Ward Six Councilor in writing on efforts to address open substance use in Seven Hills Park and other areas. Agenda five, a resolution by Councilor Davis, Councilor Wilson, and Councilor Burnley that the administration install or replace needle disposal receptacles in Seven Hills Park and other areas with secure, appropriately designed equipment.
Chair McLaughlin: Thank you. And Councilor Davis, do you want to start with a statement or should I go to staff first?
Councillor Davis: No, I'd be happy to make a brief statement. So I won't repeat everything I said in chambers. So a week or two ago when I introduced these folks can take a look at that recording or frankly read them in the paper. But just the summary is that as you noted, Mr. Chair, we've got some 90 plus folks in the audience. Obviously these are issues that have raised a number of concerns from folks that I've heard directly from that I'm sure I know some of my colleagues have, and I'm sure others even that I haven't heard. And it's, I certainly understand all of the concerns that have been raised. It's a really complicated, complex issue.
The intent of these orders was to what was sort of multiple objectives. First and foremost, just to make it clear and public and transparent that we are hearing all these concerns that are being raised. We are taking them seriously. And I wanted these specifically to go into a committee meeting so that we can have an open discussion with the administration about what is being done. As I did note in chambers, the administration has responded to many of the emails. I can't say whether it's all or not. And I appreciate that sort of outlining in detail the various things that the city is doing to address the variety of issues that lead us to these collected challenges. And so again, I appreciate that. But I think having that discussion here in committee, so we can follow up, ask questions and also hear from the public as it has been your practice, Chair, I thought would be worthwhile. So I appreciate you putting these all on the agenda.
The only other thing I'll add is that there are a lot of concerns that I have about the situation overall. And the approach that the administration has taken, I think is generally the correct one on the whole. But much like, and I noted this last week, much like Mr. Chair, you mentioned when introducing a request to declare a state of emergency regarding homelessness in the city and related items regarding the behavior of some folks, whether they have a place to go home and sleep at night or not in areas of your ward, the same sort of applies here. And I reiterated that in chambers. And I want to just reiterate that here that while I do agree that taking a compassionate approach at all of the various challenges that lead to folks being in the various situations they're in, there is also, in addition to that, an expectation of, everyone here are members of our community. And we expect of all of the members of our community, a certain level of appropriate behavior. And so that shouldn't go unsaid. There's a balance here. And based on everything we've heard, it seems that at least prior to the city council meeting, and likely still, I think we may not be at that balance. And so that's where I hope we can further the conversation here tonight. So thank you for giving me the opportunity to lay this off.
Chair McLaughlin: All right, thank you. And I'd like to turn it over to our liaison harder. If you legislator liaison, Kim Hutter, if you could also introduce the other city staff who are here today for the public to know, and Mr. Clerk, could you also elevate Hannah O'Halloran and Mike Libby, I see them both in attendance, they represent the Somerville Homeless Coalition, make them panelists, please. And I'll turn it over to liaison Hutter.
Kim Hutter: Thank you, Councillor. And as the Councillor said, my name is Kimberly Hutter. I'm a legislative liaison on the intergovernmental affairs team. And before I introduce the rest of the staff who will speak to additional details, I wanted to echo some of the things that were just shared by Councillor Davis and provide a high level overview. We know this is a situation that is affecting a lot of people that is not lost on the city. We are aware of that our city staff are responding very actively and gathering information to help the city adjust our responses as the situation unfolds. So the city is paying very close attention to this matter.
We are working with both federal and local experts on encampments on best practices, and how to handle both humanely and with a value of safety as the Councillor just mentioned, for all of those who are involved, including those who are unhoused, but also those who live work and play in our city. So those are values that we, the city have for all of the responses we are giving and keeping that in focus and understanding. As this situation is evolving, so too will our response. And we are doing that, staying true to our values to make sure that we are being compassionate and acknowledging the underlying root causes of issues, and while also addressing the short term effects that is having on our community. So we will continue to keep the community, the council and staff updated in the days and weeks to come as we continue to respond to this situation.
And so tonight to offer specifics on how the city is currently addressing this situation, we have several staff, we have Director Karen Carroll from the Health and Human Services Department. A number of her teams are actively involved in responding to this situation. We also have Chief Femino from the Somerville Police Department, as well as Deputy Chief James Stanford with us. And as Chair McLaughlin mentioned, we also have our city partners from Somerville Homeless Coalition, from Hannah O'Halloran and potentially also Mike Libby, but they're all here to provide information to some of these specific items and additional information on this specific. So I will first send it over to Chief Femino to share an update on the police side.
Chair McLaughlin: Chief, before we start, you will be retiring soon, and I just want to thank you for your service to this community, especially during a very trying period. You've carried the load of the city for quite a while, and I just want to publicly thank you. I'm sure we'll be thanking you again tomorrow, but take it away, Chief Femino.
Chief Femino: Thank you. From the perspective of Somerville Police Department, we're basically complying with the shared values of the city council, city administration, and the community in deprioritizing arrests and prioritizing treatment over incarceration, as put forward in an order in April of 2021 by the city council. We thereafter wrote a policy deprioritizing arrests for drug possession. What we have been trying to do is work with and in collaboration with other city departments to address the most recent situation up in the Seven Hills and the Davis Square area with the uncamped and the encampments that are there and the unhoused.
We have, in layman's terms, we have increased patrol presence there with both uniformed police officers and undercover officers. We've, to date, over the last two to three weeks since August 22nd, we've conducted 379 total proactive police activities, including almost 300 directed patrols in that specific area. And when I say that area, I mean Seven Hills Park, Davis Square itself, the community path to the Cambridge lines on both sides. We've also had officers conduct 52 park walking talks in that specific area. We've redirected cars 5, 6, and 7 to patrol extra patrol in that specific area. And we've also made a number of citizen contacts and business contacts, all with the purpose of identifying persons who may be in need of services. And when we come across those persons, we are referring them and working with other city departments closely to provide some services for them.
We've also shifted into making observations of any type of alleged drug distribution charges on dealing drugs. And to date, over the last couple of weeks, we've made a number of arrests, three specifically for drug distribution and one unrelated on warrants, all in that specific area. So it appears that our efforts are working to a degree in a sense that it appears that the more contact that we're making with both those who are in that area, with this information that we're garnering from the residents in that area, we are making some progress in identifying persons who may be dealing drugs in that area, making taking appropriate action when observed, and also having these weekly huddle meetings in an effort to provide any type of services or additional services that we may provide. Thank you.
Chair McLaughlin: Thank you. Do we want to go to Karen Carroll, Director Carroll of Health and Human Services?
Karen Carroll: Good evening, having a little trouble with my camera. Okay, I think I'm on now. And everyone can hear me. Thank you through the chair.
Chair McLaughlin: Yes, thank you for the opportunity to provide an update on in particular activities our department is carrying out in the Seven Hills area. I'm going to kind of go through first some very targeted things in that area. And then some other initiatives that are underway throughout the summer that are a little less direct to that area, but continuing to address the ongoing larger issue of people experiencing homelessness.
So I think the last time we met was prior to the summer. And we talked about our community health worker team that is now up and running. They go out with various outreach agencies, SHC, and they can also go out and do limited outreach activities as a group themselves. So in the over the past three months, they have had 18 encounters, outreach events, we call them in the Seven Hills area. Some of the key things they're noticing is that almost all of those encounters were needing MassHealth or assistance with MassHealth enrollment and the application process. So the accessing of health care is extremely important. And the team has been able to start that process with several of the individuals in the Seven Hills area.
There were throughout the summer, the three months, June, July and August, there were eight naloxone trainings and distribution events in that area. There were eight taxi vouchers provided for various health care or needs of folks in the park. There were four meal distribution events. That is another key issue that's come up for this particular encampment. There were six overdose prevention training events and eight other types of assistance. So that could be financial, immigration, disability. So as you can see, the team has had a lot of engagement and activity in that area.
They are complementing and balancing the elder outreach team so that there is now someone going pretty much every day to that area between the CHW team, the Fenway Outreach and Harm Reduction Van, and Somerville Homeless Coalition, who we'll hear from in a minute. We met recently and through our partner with SHC, they are going to reach out to other outreach agencies that work on the weekends so that we can expand that coverage on Saturday and Sunday as well in that area.
So let me move to another. I have a lot of data from the Access the Fenway program that is run through BSAS in our community. And as I said, they are coming to that particular area regularly. And they are, I think, once a week, they are providing us with additional important information and data on what they're seeing and the number of encounters they have. They are providing naloxone. They are providing needle boxes, receptacles, individual ones, fentanyl test kits, and other harm reduction supplies, as is our CHW, our harm reduction CHW.
So the other big initiative that HHS is involved with, again, with a number of my colleagues on this call, as well as our new emergency manager and 311, is we are collecting and reviewing the data regularly. So we are looking at sharps collected. We are looking at the Fenway access data I just mentioned. We're looking at the activity and the needs that our CHWs are identifying. We are reviewing, thanks to the police department's analyst, we are provided with data around the sharps, the locations within the city that we are finding sharps and other encounter data. We also have access to our CitizenServe database, which is where our inspectional service health inspectors are recording different types of health encounters and inspections they may be doing or requests for needle collection or cleanup. And then our 311 data. So there's an awful lot of data, and yes, there is an increased amount of calls to 311, in particular to this area that we are tracking and following, and our colleagues are reporting to the weekly huddle on that data.
The other big advantage we have and our strength is the engagement center in the area, and I'm going to let Hannah speak to that, but she did provide us with some data around the engagement center that they are seeing an average of 35 to 40 unique clients each day now consistently throughout the months. Whether it's cold or hot, that tends to spike in extreme weather, but it's an incredible resource that's there, and our teams are trying to encourage folks to take advantage of the resource center that's open Monday to Friday. They also host the healthcare for the homeless clinic within the engagement center, so it's very close. It's right in downtown Davis Square, but Hannah has let us know recently that that team is actually doing some street outreach and street medicine in the Seven Hills area as well, so she can add to that when she comes on if there's additional comments.
I think, as the chief mentioned, we have a weekly huddle, which includes multiple city departments who are involved in addressing this issue. It's an opportunity to communicate, to connect, to look at the data, and to identify gaps and as a group, identify them. We are also going to pilot a new Sharps kiosk, which was designed for a receptacle for Sharps, which was designed for Somerville. The company has designed it and given it to us as a pilot, so we'll be exploring where that should go in the Davis Square area. That was part of a project that was started with Matt Mitchell, and we have opiate funds that potentially could be used to purchase others if we think it's effective. It's new in that it's a dual receptacle. It allows for both individual needles to be put in as well as the small containers, so that is coming soon.
Some of the other more general things that have been going on on a more policy level are some meetings the mayor held with the lieutenant governor and several other mayors of Massachusetts to talk about homelessness in general, in particular to our family shelters and increase in adult homelessness and also now seeing more unhoused children in communities. This is happening across the state and concerning to lots of communities. The lieutenant governor listened to the concerns of the mayors and the various communities, and there were some tangible asks, in particular from our mayor, to help assist with log jams of applications so that our staff, whether it be with the Somerville Homeless Coalition or our Housing Stability Office, can easily see where applications are up to and get a response from the state. That was causing significant delay. We have been provided with those contacts, and they are working for our teams at this point in terms of just getting information and making sure applications are moving along.
At budget time, the council and the administration proposed additional funding for the 10 additional beds, adult shelter beds and shelter expansion in Davis Square, so we'll continue to work on that project with our partners at SHC. HHS, the case management human services team, continues to work with families who are currently housed or maybe unstably housed and getting them connected to our Office of Housing Stability while also ensuring that some basic needs are provided for.
The warming center procurement process is underway. The warming center is scheduled to and budgeted for funding from mid-December or early December through till April. The exact dates and times will be determined once an operator is chosen, but that procurement process is underway. We are also working with a city task force to address some of the findings in the executive summary from last year's warming center to improve protocols and processes this year. We have created a warming center website with our HHS communications person, staff member, as well as the city's communication team, and we're making sure that that warming center, both website and there is an email, are up and running and they are now, and people can get information and updates as they occur on the warming center.
We also will be having targeted fall and winter vaccination efforts, specifically targeted at persons experiencing homelessness and some of our more vulnerable members of the community. Those will begin in the next few weeks when the vaccine arrives. And then we're making sure, providing backpacks and heat safety kits in extreme, when there was extreme heat this summer, ensuring that people are safe from the elements as well. Water, including water and bug repellent and other essential safety needs that folks might need. Again, in partnership with our outreach partners like Somerville Homeless Coalition.
So I've talked a lot and I think at this point I will turn it over to Hannah. Well, through the chair, wherever you'd like to go next, but much of the work we partner very heavily with our colleagues at the Somerville Homeless Coalition, and I will let them speak to some other issues when it's their turn. So thank you.
Chair McLaughlin: Yes, thank you. I think it is a good time to turn over to Hannah O'Halloran. And Mr. Clerk, could you also, from Michael Libby, who's in attendance, but we'll turn it over to Hannah.
Hannah O'Halloran: Through the chair, thank you so much for having me again tonight. I do want to note I got a notification on my laptop that it might reboot sometime in the next hour. And so if I sign off and then sign back on, that's why. And I apologize in advance for that. I'm Hannah O'Halloran, the Director of Homeless Services over at the Somerville Homeless Coalition. So my general responsibilities are overseeing our engagement center, our street outreach program, and our adult shelter.
Specifically in the Davis Square area, including Seven Hills Park, our street outreach team continues to provide services and case management to all individuals that are either sleeping outside every night in those areas or people that are just kind of gathering throughout the day. As many of the other speakers have mentioned, we've definitely seen an increase in the Seven Hills and the Davis Square area throughout the summer. It's a bit of a different kind of population or some newer people that we just haven't seen before. So our team is continuing to develop relationships with everybody, get people connected to public benefits, whether it's food stamps, health insurance, as well as getting them on housing wait lists.
We have seen some of the people from the Seven Hills area, as well as the Davis Square Statue Park area, begin engaging in the engagement center. It's a slow process, but it's something that our teams are continuing to work on. We also partner very closely with Healthcare for the Homeless. They offer a clinic inside of our engagement center every Thursday morning and then provide street outreach healthcare services Tuesday afternoons. We're also in constant communication with the First Step Street Outreach team, who frequents the area to drop off different supplies and also provide case management services to the individuals sleeping outside. I think we're, you know, slowly chipping away at it and engaging more and more people on a daily basis, but there's definitely been an increase in the area. Through the chair, I think that's all I have for now.
Chair McLaughlin: All right, thank you. And Mike Libby, did you want to speak or did Hannah cover it?
Mike Libby: Through the chair, Hannah pretty much covered it. I just want to thank Karen and the city for, you know, putting a lot of effort in every week to talking about this subject, which is complicated and having the administration and a number of departments all on the same page, including the police department who have been fantastic, FIRE and others. We can't do this alone and we do need the city's help and the community's help. And we're here to do as much as we can to keep everybody safe. Thank you.
Chair McLaughlin: Liaison Hunter, is there any further comment from the city or can I turn it over to the council?
Kim Hutter: We're happy to take questions at this time from the council.
Chair McLaughlin: Okay. Any questions or comments from the committee?
Councillor Davis: Mr. Chair, I know I spoke earlier, but do you want to?
Chair McLaughlin: Councilor Davis.
Councillor Davis: Okay, thank you. Thank you all for all the information and thank you for all the hard work you're doing on this. As I said, as was acknowledged, it's a really complex, challenging issue. I'm very grateful knowing that we have, you know, an array of different folks with different backgrounds and areas of expertise trying to help address the challenges that we're facing here. So thank you.
I have just sort of three things I want to touch on at this stage, and then I'll sit back. And actually, Hannah, you pretty much answered the first question or sort of addressed the first sort of point I was going to make, but I'll still raise it just to put an even more fine point on it. The request was going to be when Dr. Carroll was talking to sort of talk a little bit more about the, you know, the value that the many different contacts that we have, the ways that we connect with folks for different things, you know, whether it's food, talking about health insurance, all these different things, beyond the, you know, that specific service and beyond the data and information it provides, you know, which, and I'll attempt to sort of summarize how I understand it. And please, any or all of you, feel free to correct me if I sort of get this wrong.
But, you know, Hannah, you sort of, you mentioned that folks sort of getting ready to, you know, to take advantage of various things, right? And as you all have explained it to us in various meetings and committee meetings actually, you know, in the past, and I say this because I've had folks say to me, why are we going and giving them food and helping them be more comfortable? Doesn't that just encourage them to stay? And what I explained based on, you know, how it's been explained to me is that, look, those, first and foremost, these are human beings and people shouldn't go hungry and we want people to have healthcare and all of the other services that we're providing. That's the most important purpose of those services.
But they have a side benefit of allowing us to have that contact point and talk to them about other things that are available. I can't remember who it was, but somebody described it as sort of being an off-ramp and that may or may not be an appropriate way of phrasing it. But it conceptually worked really well for my brain anyways, because it's like, you know, when you're having the conversation about whatever service you're talking about, you can also mention other things that we could do, other things that are available, getting on the housing waiting list, for example, whether it's treatment services. And so each one of those contact points, you know, with the professionalism that those service delivery folks have is, you know, is used not in sort of a, you know, subterfuge or nefarious way, but like just an opportunity to try and give folks the opportunity to plug into other services and eventually maybe find a way into a different situation, right, if and when they're ready for that. And sometimes it happens faster and sometimes it takes a lot longer, but I know I've heard you all talk about how those repeated contacts really provide that sort of trust, that understanding, and that opportunity folks to move out of the situation they're in. And that is ultimately, I think, everyone's objective in that folks can be in a safer, healthier position and we want to help them get there.
So I'm kind of answering my own question, but I want to make a real point of connecting those just for anyone who has any question about, you know, whether providing food and others and showers or whatever else encourages folks to come to Davis Square. Maybe it does, but it also gives us an opportunity to help those folks into a better situation, right? How'd I do on that?
Chair McLaughlin: That directed towards Director Carroll?
Councillor Davis: Through the chair, yes. Here I am breaking the rules through the chair. I'll take the thumbs up from Director Carroll and the nods from him as that I got that mostly right. Okay, so the other two questions I have are specifically about sharps and needle collection. Director Carroll, you talked about, mentioned calls for needle collection and responses to that.
Councilor Davis: Can you talk a little bit more about, and this might be Liaison Hunter or whomever else can address this, but other, you know, beyond obviously when someone calls and says, "Hey, there's a needle on the side of the path here, come collect it." To what extent do we have a proactive program to not wait for someone to call to sweep the various areas every morning or periodically or what the case may be? Can you talk about that a little bit? And then I have a follow-up about needles through the chair to the director or whomever else could address that for me, please.
Chair: Director Hunter, Liaison Hunter.
Liaison Hunter: Yes, thank you through the chair to Councillor Davis. I'm happy to provide some context on that. As Director Carroll mentioned, there are several different ways in which the city responds to or collects sharps. We do have some collection boxes that are regularly attended to by our ISD department. And they are also often the folks who are responding when we do get calls. I know that they are sort of, I think taking the, they're like doing the heavy lifting on collecting our sharps in this area. But I also know that the police department is noting sharps as well. And they're, I believe all of the collection, if I'm not mistaken, Director Carroll, please correct me, is done by ISD. So if HHS staff are noticing sharps, then our ISD department comes to collect them. Please correct me if that's incorrect.
Councilor Davis: Mr. Chair, can we have the director respond to that?
Chair: Yes, please Director Carroll.
Director Carroll: Through the chair, that is largely correct. The police and ISD are the main folks who collect needles in the city. They also track them. So we want to kind of look at both those data points together. And the requests for collection comes in a number of ways. It might come in through 311. It might be DPW staff out in the parks every day, which is also kind of a proactive to answer Councilor Davis's point or question about proactive. The DPW team are in the parks daily and they will see, and if they have concerns, they will reach out to either police or ISD. I think more typically ISD they reach out to, but again, it can go either as well as constituent calls or concerns can go to either place for collection and then also for tracking. I believe ISD, and again, I would have to check on this and confirm, but I believe they are doing some more regular patroller or proactive cleanup in the area, but I would have to talk to the director of ISD and confirm that. I know they are out there regularly.
Chair: Thank you. Liaison Hunter.
Liaison Hunter: Yes, I just want to add, I spoke earlier in the day with the director of ISD and can confirm that they have seen larger amounts of needles that have made more of an effort to be in those areas to collect. So there's more of a proactive approach in responding to those needs as well as additional waste that may be produced that are not just sharps, but others that they are there to collect. So for both of those kinds of collections, they are seeing an uptick and responding proactively.
Chair: Councilor Davis.
Councilor Davis: Yeah, Mr. Chair, thank you. Through you, thank you for that. So I guess I'd like to just request a sort of a definitive and follow-up is fine, just so you can confirm kind of exactly what we're doing. 'Cause I think I kind of heard two possibilities there and Liaison Hunter, through the chair, I appreciate you haven't spoken with the director today and just relaying to the extent that you can summarize our conversation. But if we could ask just specifically, and if it's not ISD or whoever, let me put it another way. It strikes me that given this particular situation that we are seeing right now, the significant increase in requests, the significant increase of finding needles and sharps and whatever else in this particular area and surrounding areas, that it would be almost sort of a baseline sort of response to have a daily proactive sweep through by someone who is able to actually safely and appropriately dispose of whatever we found rather than adding another task to DPW workers for them to then call. 'Cause at that point, more kids have come through on their way to preschool and whatever else. And that may be happening and if so, great. So I'd like to find out through the chair, can we confirm whether there is a definitive, proactive, regular, if not daily sweep for lack of a better term? And if not, why not? And can we do that please? So that's my question on that. I don't need a response because I think I appreciate what you've already said. So unless there's something else you wanted to add, I'll move on to my next question, but I'll pause for a moment, Mr. Chair, to see if there's anything else that the administration wanted to respond to that.
Liaison Hunter: Yeah, through the chair, I will provide that data as well as an update as Director Carroll mentioned on the forthcoming needle collection units that we are looking to install, which is part of our efforts to appropriately dispose of those items. And those boxes are regularly maintained by our department, so yeah.
Chair: Councilor Davis.
Councilor Davis: Thank you, Mr. Chair, through you to the liaison. Thank you. I appreciate that. And you very keenly anticipated the subject of my next and final question for the moment, at least, is the collection devices for, you know, sharps boxes or kiosk or whatever you want to call them. The order that I put in was specifically to ask about, so this order was introduced by myself, Councilor Burnley, Councilor Wilson. I should have checked touch base with the good Councilor from Ward 7 to see if she wanted to add her name to it as well, so my oversight there, because we have had conversations about it as well. My understanding from Councilor Wilson, and please correct me if I'm wrong, to whomever in the administration can address it, is that there to at least to some degree, some of the devices that we've installed have been damaged, have been broken into, or in some way, they're not sort of withstanding the, you know, whatever wear and tear seems to be the case. So let me ask first, is that accurate, since I heard that secondhand through you, Mr. Chair, to the Director of Liaison, do I have that information correct?
Liaison Hunter: I do know that ISD does respond when there is a note of a damaged or broken box, and that has been the case. We are able to do some things, but there is a need for repair in this area, and that is why we are actively working on providing not just a replacement of what was previously there, but something that we think will be an improvement on what was, what is currently in the area. Pardon me, that is a project that Director Carroll is working very closely on, so if there's any additional information that the Director wants to share on that, I welcome her comment.
Councilor Davis: Mr. Chair, through you to Liaison, thank you for that. There is additional information I want to share, so I want to ask about, so if I may, through the Chair to Director Carroll. So I'm thrilled to hear this. You know, I'll assume that you all were already on it before I put the request in a week or two ago, because that would be entirely consistent with what we've seen from you all in terms of, you know, already having thought of the things. You know, we're not, me, I'll speak for myself, I'm not, you know, I'm not thinking of this stuff for the first time. You all are thinking about this every day, so I appreciate that. I'm happy to hear that there's a new, you know, state-of-the-art, to some degree, container that hopefully will address some of these concerns, and so I'm grateful for that. You said, through the Chair to Director Carroll, you said soon. Is there, is there, can we put a little bit more meat around what soon means? Is that soon within a few weeks, or soon within maybe next calendar year, or somewhere in between?
Director Carroll: Through the Chair, the prototype by Chrysalis is available. It has been designed for the City, and it is now available, so the other City departments need to work through the legality of who owns what part of the park, and where and how this could be placed. We are also working with the libraries in Davis Square to install one there as well, when they are ready and they know the site that they would like. So we would be looking to purchase a second one down the track when we assess the first one in the pilot.
Councilor Davis: Mr. Chair, through you to the Director, thank you. That's good to hear. It's for folks, I presume what you mean about ownership is that in Seven Hills Park, obviously some of the area that we sort of think of the park is actually private property, part of the Harvard Vanguard building. Some of it is owned by the state, or the bike path, because that's an old railroad easement, and so we have, I know we've had some challenges in the past addressing other things related to that space. And then the T-Head House, of course, is the MBTA, and so actually the path may be MBTA too. I don't know. Either way, the point is we don't have, we can't just do whatever we'd like. Unfortunately, there's red tape to deal with, so I assume that's what, through the Chair, I assume that's what you're talking about. I see you nodding your head, so thank you for working through those challenges. I'm glad to hear, because my next question was going to be, is it just one? But it sounds like that's not the case, that we're looking at putting these in libraries and presumably any other area in the city where they might be. You mentioned a pilot program, so let me ask, through the Chair, is there an intent to sort of deploy something, one or a very small number initially and see how it goes before we deploy these more widely? And if so, do you know what that initial number would be, through the Chair?
Chair: Go ahead, Carol.
Director Carroll: Thank you, through the Chair, that's a great question. We have recently received word that the first Chrysalis unit that was designed specifically for Somerville, based on our surveys of the community, which we are required to do as part of the opiate settlement fund to kind of assess the needs and then make a plan for how we want to utilize these funds. So this was one of the things that came out of that working group under Matt Mitchell. And so the design, we worked with Chrysalis for quite some time to create this unique prototype with the dual containers. So I think your question is the pilot. The pilot, I mean, we need to start with at least one to pilot this free prototype that Chrysalis is giving us. They will also be assisting in the evaluation and kind of seeing how it goes. But if there is a readiness for a second one, we can certainly request them to build another one for us. And as I said, we have opiate funds that are designated for this kind of thing. So it's an issue of when we are ready and then we can work with Chrysalis to order a second unit. So I think the question is we're looking at two right now in the sort of short term, two potential sites that we have worked closely. We have submitted work requests to DPW as part of their budget planning for this year. Those work requests were approved or one of them was approved for the library. So if we would like to add a second one sooner rather than later, these are the kinds of things we'd have to work through where they would go. But we do have sort of two sites that we are actively talking with both the library and then the city staff and external staff as you mentioned who own that land in the area. So that's kind of a vague answer, but I would say one to two in this pilot. And then when we're ready to move forward with some additional ones, again, based on the data. So we are tracking the needles. That's why we have been working with Meredith in the police department, ISD to really track the data where we're finding these and where this type of a receptacle unit might be useful.
Councilor Davis: And through the chair to director Carroll, thank you for that. I appreciate it. If I may just ask for a clarification. We talked about the two sites. You said the library, so I guess two clarifications. Which library, question one, and is the, we started the conversation talking about Seven Hills Park. Is that general area, the second site or is it some other area that you can't disclose or is it somewhere that you can disclose through the chair?
Director Carroll: Through the chair. Yeah. Thank you for the question. The library, which library was the Davis Square library is the one that we were exploring with our head librarian. And we have a site designated some plans drawn up for DPW. There's a little bit of conversation with the librarian around the exact location. So the library team needs to figure that out, but then that one is ready to go. And then the second site where in light of data that we've received in the past few weeks around needle collection from our ISD team and our police team, we have identified that that would be a good site for a second one, or maybe the first one who's ever ready first, would go into that Seven Hills area. Yes. But we need to assess whether there is a piece of land the city owns that is appropriate. We've also looped in our parks department who, we want to talk with them about the park design and where they think is appropriate for this. So there's a number of different departments involved in the Seven Hills location, but yes, that is where the data right now would suggest. And then 311 calls is the other piece of data that would suggest that that would be an important location to place one of these new units and trial it.
Councilor Davis: Mr. Chair, through you to the director. Okay. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. And so I look forward to seeing that. I think these are all small steps and important and difficult and complicated, but collectively small steps that will help address all the various challenges that we're seeing here and here. So I'm grateful for all of that. I should also note while I'm here that as was noted by the director Libby, that SPD has been fantastic. I mentioned when I introduced these items, I was talking to one of the officers who's quite familiar to folks here who happened to be on patrol that day. And he had already established a relationship with folks. It happens that he actually had known some folks from before and he was sitting down and talking to them. And just that sort of approach, that kind of like the more you can engage and sort of be, take that collaborative approach. And as he explained it to me, one of the things they really emphasize is, look, you got to be good neighbors. Right? Like it just, you got to be good neighbors. You got to, I can't remember if he used the word behave, but that's sort of how I heard it. And it just, it was to me, it was sort of spot on accepting what I think is the right approach to take this more compassionate and deemphasizing arrest and criminalization. I think that is also part of another small part of what we need. One final thing, Mr. Chair, I'll say just, and specifically this applies to everything really that we've talked about in any and all solutions, partial solutions, but particularly with the Chrysalis units, the kiosk boxes, totally understand the approach to take, to look at data. We'll see where they will be best used. And particularly since this is, as you noted, Director Carroll, a new design. So you want to make sure that it's working right and it doesn't need any changes before you kind of spend a whole lot of money on a whole bunch of them. That said, and I say this just for the sake of saying it out loud, and maybe it's just to hear myself say it, but like, let's not let studying, getting the box perfect, get in the way of implementing this in anywhere across the city from Ward 1 to Ward 7, where we think it'll improve safety and help avoid the risk of folks coming into contact with hazardous items. We do that sometimes collectively as governments. And so I just, I want to voice the concern that we should, I'd rather have it almost perfect or almost right and in many more places than get it perfect and have to wait longer. So that's my one councilor's opinion. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for indulging me, for giving me the floor for this long. Thank you to the administration for answering my questions. I'll stop there and go into listen mode. Thank you.
Chair: Thank you very much, Councilor Davis. Any further questions from the committee?
Councilor Said: Through the Chair.
Chair: Councilor Said.
Councilor Said: I don't have a question. I have, I don't have a question, but I do have a comment. First, I want to thank everyone for all the hard work and for all the efforts you put into addressing this complex issue and for especially taking a compassionate approach. I would like to echo one of the things that the Councilor from Ward 6 and also the Councilor from Ward 7 have brought up at our last Council meeting about the needles and sharps collection. I think I have not received a lot of emails, honestly, but I know for the emails that were sent to the full Council, this is probably one of the biggest concerns, those needles that are in the park and these kids. So, and thank you for explaining how the efforts you put into this, by having DPW, contact ISD, by having ISD look at those specific tickets, but it just sounds like there's an opportunity here to really address this quickly. And I think the Ward 6 Councilor mentioned about just having a daily cleanup would be helpful and have that implemented as soon as possible. Yeah, so that's, I do share their concern about this specific issue.
Chair: Thank you, Councilor. I do have some questions myself. And so people know, I get calls about this as well, even though I live on the opposite side of town, one because of dealing with homelessness as well, but also because I grew up in the same neighborhood. And just, I got a few questions actually, but the first one on the issue of sharps boxes, Director Carroll, you mentioned that there is some data available. If you don't have that data readily available, that's fine. But curious, like are the current sharps boxes being used and how often are they used compared to say, like the sharps that you find that someone picks up off the street? So comparison between the boxes being used versus a illegal disposal of a sharp.
Director Carroll: Through the Chair, to the Chair, just a point of clarification on the question of, do you mean the small disposal individual boxes? How often do we find those versus individual or these receptacles that Kimberly mentioned earlier?
Chair: Whatever is being presently used in Davis, there are currently sharps boxes down there, correct? So, and I assume the city comes and picks that up. And I assume that's where the data is coming from, correct?
Director Carroll: Yes, through the Chair, that is where some of the data ISD would be recording that data as they are collecting sharps. So that is something I would have to ask them for more details, that sort of nuance of how often are they finding individual needles on the ground versus in a collection receptacle or, you know, the small individual ones. We do, you know, track this data and see it and somewhat from the data I have received, I can tell if there is a large number of 30 needles in one spot or one time, we can probably infer that that was a container or someone's, you know, it can even be a diabetic or a large number of needles. But not off the top of my head, I would have to go back through the data or ask them to and break that out for you. But it's a good question.
Chair: Do you have an idea maybe how many, and again, I don't need specific numbers, like every needle available out there, but what I'm getting at is, are people using these boxes or are they just negligently throwing a needle away? Or are there just not enough boxes for people to use, just addressing a improper disposal of a needle?
Director Carroll: Through the Chair, I think perhaps Director Hunter would have more to say, Liaison Hunter, on that from ISD. I have not spoken to them specifically about that. We've kind of been in meetings where we've talked in generality, so she may know more, and we can certainly find out. I believe that there is, from what I'm hearing from the team, there is a mixture of both individual needles improperly disposed of in the park and area surrounds, as well as the collection boxes. But Liaison Hunter may have more to add to that, and we can certainly get back to you on that.
Chair: Okay, Liaison Hunter, do you have anything to add?
Liaison Hunter: Yes, I can confirm that the boxes are being used, and some of the calls, either from DPW staff to ISD or from others, are to empty those boxes because they are full. So the boxes are being used, but as the Director mentioned, there are still needles being found not in those collection receptacles, as well.
Chair: Okay, and I'm curious, maybe the Chief can answer this question, is improper disposal of a needle, is there a law around that, and what is the City's policy about basically very dangerous litter?
Chief: Well, to the Chair, it certainly is littering. I'm much sure that there's a specific statute for the needle itself. However, I'll get back to you on that. And so, but it certainly would fall under the general littering statute.
Chair: Okay, and I understand that's a very difficult law to enforce, but, you know, as someone who, you know, again, I work with homelessness in my day job, deal with a lot of the City, I do have compassion for people. One of the things I struggle with is litter in general, in any form. I find that to, like, even just throwing a candy bar on the ground is just inconsiderate to me. So throwing a needle on the ground that is potentially filled with drugs and possible disease right next to, you know, a childcare center, that's just a concern to me, so I want to make sure there's no needles left anywhere. And, you know, people should be aware, again, there's some things that don't have to amount to arrest that can be said to people about improperly disposing of a needle in the park. Let's see, what else we got? Chief, so, you know, actually, I'll ask Hannah. Hannah, you mentioned, you know, in communicating with the homeless population, that there's an uptick, a lot of new people here, do you have an idea where people are coming from?
Hannah: Through the chair to the chair? Well, the information that we've been gathering from people that are currently sleeping outside in the Davis Square area, as we're seeing an influx of people from Central Square in Cambridge, it, they've recently renovated their Carol Barron Plaza, and they have a, they've started to, as defined by some people, crack down on homelessness outside in Central Square. And I think we've seen that move along the red line back towards Davis Square.
Chair: Okay, so mostly Cambridge, you think, anecdotally?
Hannah: Yes.
Chair: Okay. And I'm curious. So chief, you know, the, of course, you know, everyone's talking about Mass and Cass, and, you know, what happened there, and Boston's policy towards encampments, where the mayor drafted a new ordinance dealing with encampments in particular, I'm just curious what the city's policy is about an encampment and what the law presently is around an encampment in a public space.
Chief: Through the chair to the chair. To the best of my knowledge, the city itself has not adopted any type of ordinance relative to or similar to the Boston ordinance, but I would defer to Kimberly, I know that there's been discussions at the city level, but I'm not privy to all of those discussions. So I think I would rather defer to Kimberly.
Chair: Okay, liaison Hunter.
Liaison Hunter: Thank you, Chair McLaughlin. So this is a part of what I was referring to earlier. And I think there are, there is history in Somerville of encampments, and we have our processes that we follow. And I think the city is currently evaluating other practices, best practices, both from federal experts from local experts on how to address the kinds of situations we're seeing in this encampment and how we can update and evolve our response to encampments. So that is ongoing work and considering what it would look like to do that within our Somerville values as we've all expressed being humane and also keeping in mind safety of everyone involved, those who are unhoused as well as residents and visitors to the area. So that's an ongoing conversation and something that we will continue to keep you updated on as we make any additions or changes to our current operating procedures.
Chair: Could you? I think that's what I'm getting at. I'm curious. So what is the current operating procedure?
Liaison Hunter: Great. So yeah, I can share my understanding is how we have engaged in many other scenarios. We rely heavily on our partners in the Somerville Homeless Coalition to engage with the individuals who are in those encampments, providing services and ultimately working toward the long-term solution of having them be housed. You, Councillor, are very familiar with the efforts in the spring for the encampment that was under 93, and our approach there is to give as much time as possible for people to transition to stable housing from that encampment. And we had a number of successes in that effort and many things we learned from that effort as well. So that is the standard operating is engaging with those folks with an intensive wraparound services for the long-term goal of having them be housed. And that is the work that Hannah has mentioned is ongoing with those who are currently in house in the Seven Hills area and will continue to engage in the many services that are available in the hopes of getting folks into very stable and safe living conditions.
Chair: Thank you. And we mentioned, so there's several pieces of property here within one park, city property, state property, and then private property. How are the state and private properties addressed? Are state police involved? And what happens if something happens on state or private property?
Chief: If I may, to the chair, although those three parcels are owned by different entities, as the sum of the police within our jurisdiction, we have concurrent jurisdiction. To date, I have no knowledge that the state police has been involved in our deployment of offices in that area. I think it's important to note that based on our values in the city of the prioritizing arrests and decriminalizing drug use, that at least when dealing with our offices, the SPD offices patrolling that area and engaging with this population, that we have more control over the outcome. And I think that that's an important thing to remember that at least that we have the philosophy of utilizing a compassion approach, the prioritization approach, and that may be different from other agencies, whether they be the transit police or the state police. And so I think that would answer your question. But to date, I don't have any knowledge that we've had other agencies involved in our efforts.
Chair: Well, it does on the state property. But as far as private property, has there been any issues with I guess it's a Harvard Vanguard building there? Any private property issues?
Chief: To the chair, to the chair, not to my knowledge, no.
Chair: Okay, thank you. On the subject of arrests as well. So chief, you did mention there have been arrests for distribution. Can you talk a little bit about more about that? Maybe just the recent history of this?
Chief: Yeah. So as I stated earlier, to date, when we started the efforts, I think in and around August 22, there was an individual who was arrested on there were actually two arrests made on September 5, both for drug dealing. One had an outstanding warrant, one male had an outstanding warrant. Second individual was arrested after undercover detectives witnessed what they believe to be a hand to hand transaction of a small amount of drugs. And so what we're seeing is then to go on with that, there was a third arrest on September 7. Again, an individual was observed with what was believed to be a hand to hand transaction amongst themselves. That individual, the purchaser was stopped, he was not arrested. The individual that distributed the drugs, a warrant was obtained. As he had left the area in a couple of days later, he was ultimately arrested on the arrest of warrant. Further, there was a fourth arrest, unrelated to drug distribution. There was an outstanding warrant out of the city of Cambridge, I believe, for assault and battery and drug trafficking in that city in the past. So those are the four that we have to date. And, you know, again, the efforts of the police department as far as observations in the area, especially with the undercover officers over the last couple of weeks, have netted over 400 investigative hours in that particular area. So we're putting a lot of effort in that area in order to deal with the situation.
Chair: Thank you. And what was I going to go? In terms of, so Chief, you mentioned a couple times the city's policy of de-prioritizing drug arrests, which is something that I've supported. I think I was probably the first person to put in that order several years ago. And I do still support that policy. I will say there's a difference to me between de-prioritizing arrests and decriminalization or basically saying, how do I phrase this? I think there are ways to enforce drug policy without arrests and something that's been helpful with the police department in East Somerville dealing with alcohol abuse, mostly not drug abuse. But when I talked to the Somerville police, they, people basically talked to people and told them, you know, you can't do this on a public street. You can't do this in a park.
Chair McLaughlin: And they didn't make arrests, but they made it kind of understood that this is not an appropriate place to be using or to be littering or things like that. And we did not solve homelessness, but we did at least address the most immediate concerns from neighbors. And I'm just curious. So in Statue Park or Danahee Park, whatever people want to call it, you know, we do hear things about people just openly using drugs. And I'm curious, what is the police's response if they saw someone just, you know, cooking heroin in a spoon or using a needle publicly? What is the policy on that?
Chief Elow: To the chair. So, you know, there's been many instances over the last few weeks where officers have made those types of observations of use of drugs, substance abuse, and they've made contact with those individuals, had them dispose of them or have seized those types of drugs and have sent that message that you just referred to, which was this is not going to be tolerated in this area. They shouldn't be doing it in this area. And, but again, based on the values, based on the order that was put out, I believe it was in April of 2021 by the council to deprioritize and decriminalize, the officers have adopted the thereafter policy that the department and the philosophy of deprioritizing arrest for simple possession. So, but they do engage, they do seize, they do have those persons know or send that message to those persons that it's not going to be tolerated in that area.
Chair McLaughlin: Okay. Thank you. I think it sounds like we're on the same page there. The final question, I guess, before I turn it over to others is have we seen an uptick in overdoses in the, in the square?
Chief Elow: To the chair, to the chair. I don't have that data available. I can get back to you on that. I'm not sure if any of the other, my colleagues can answer that, but I don't see, I don't have any data in front of me here to answer that question.
Chair McLaughlin: Director Carroll, might you have an idea or liaison Hunter?
Director Carroll: Overdose data gets reported through the state to us quite delayed. So most of the typical reports we're looking at are delayed. We do our EMS and chief green does attend our weekly huddle and lets us know if they're seeing any changes or upticks in, in calls for EMS in that area. So I can certainly request more detailed. He has not mentioned it in the last couple of huddles, but I would want to check with him before I speak to that.
Chair McLaughlin: Okay. Yes. I would definitely appreciate that information because if there's an uptick in use, I would assume there's an uptick in overdoses as well. So that's all I have any further questions or comments from the council.
So we do have other items related to this. Before I do that though, counselor Judy Panetta Neufeld from ward seven is in attendance. And I know she's wanted to address this issue as well. So with permission from the council, I would like to sponsor a counselor Panetta Neufeld to spot to speak on this particular issue. Seeing no objections, Mr. Clerk, could you please unmute counselor Panetta Neufeld.
Clerk: All right. I see Judy has her hand raised. Are we able to unmute?
Chair McLaughlin: I'm not seeing her. Okay. We can hear you. That work. Okay. Yes.
Councillor Panetta Neufeld: Thank you so much, Mr. Chair for recognizing me and allowing me to speak and ask some questions. My name is for those who don't know, I'm Judy Panetta Neufeld. I'm the ward seven city counselor. I'm here to speak and ask some questions as you know, for many different hats and perspectives that I wear as a city counselor to an abutting ward to seven hills to as a neighbor of the park. I live probably a one minute walk away as a mom of a toddler who attends one of the two daycares that abut the park. As a result of having a toddler in one of the daycares, I walk through the park at least four times a day, if not more, depending on what my day looks like. So I see and experience these issues on a different level, I believe, than some that have spoken to this evening. And so I wanted to share both questions that I have questions I've gotten from constituents as well as my perspective and experiences.
I first want to start by sharing that I'd like to talk about this issue tonight. I want to decouple the challenges we have with homelessness in the city and the unhoused from the open air drug market that seven hills park has become to conflate them together, I think, makes the assumption that we believe that everyone in the park is unhoused that is using drugs, or everyone who is unhoused in the park is using drugs. And I don't think those are fair assumptions to make of the folks that are there. So I first want to say and remind everyone that I've been an incredibly vocal advocate for unhoused in our community. I used my time and energy during this last budget season to advocate for more resources and I've appreciated the conversation tonight that is focused on resources and services for unhoused.
I want to speak, however, about the public health and public safety issues in the park, separate from the issues of services for our homeless and unhoused residents. This is the public health and public safety committee. And I believe we as a community as a city as city staff as elected officials as community partners have a responsibility to keep our community safe. That includes our children, our families, our neighbors, and of course our unhoused residents. For those who have not walked through the park four times a day, every single day for years, drugs are actively sold, actively consumed in the park at all hours of the day. It is not an evening challenge. It is not an overnight challenge. It is during the day, all day, at all hours of the day. Yesterday, I was walking home from a meeting. It was noon. I looked at my clock because I was running late for a zoom meeting and locked eyes with two individuals in the park that were actively shooting up. It is visible to anyone walking through our residents, our visitors, our business owners, the children of the two daycare centers who walk through the park in the path to get to the nearby playgrounds because they are not using that green space anymore and other areas to walk around in our city.
Because of the constant drug use and drug sales in the park, we know that there are other issues and challenges. There has been physical and verbal violence, fighting, screaming at all hours of the night and all hours of the day. Piles of trash, debris. We have seen an increase in stolen bicycles from the bike racks right next to the T station. Broken and half empty, half full alcohol containers. There has been public urination and defecation, even though there is a port-a-john in the park. I walked through with my toddler in the last two weeks with someone with their pants down to their ankles. We have talked extensively about the discarded drug paraphernalia, the needles in the park. I will ask questions about the sharps container in a moment. But it is everywhere in the park.
I was heartened to hear Councillor Davis, many of the same questions and Councillor McLaughlin and Councillor Sayeed as I have, so I won't repeat any questions that you have already asked. I wrote down, Councillor Davis, the reminder that our officers have been sharing with folks who have been camped there in the park that you got to be good neighbours. And I'm here to say, as someone who walks through this park multiple times a day, they are not being good neighbours. And so I'm here to ask some questions about what we do now. What do we do now that we know that the folks that are in our parks all day and all night using and selling drugs are not being good neighbours? So I have questions specifically about the public safety issues. I have questions specifically about the public health issues. And I have some ideas as well I want to share.
So Chief Elow, I'll start with you with some of the public safety issues. I am aware of the deprioritization of drug arrest order, which is policy 215. I have it in front of me. And the first sentence of the policy order reads, the purpose of this policy is to establish guidelines that will assist officers and supervisors in understanding the benefits of diversion versus prosecution for minor drug possession offences. My first question, Chief, is what qualifies as minor versus a major drug possession offence? In particular, I'm curious about heroin and crack cocaine, and if those are considered minor drug possession offences under this order, or if they are not.
Chief Elow: To the chair.
Chair McLaughlin: And please, Councillor, to the chair as well. Thank you, Chief.
Chief Elow: To the chair. Councillor, I appreciate the question. I think I would make the distinction. It doesn't really depend on the type of drug that we would be talking about for simple possession, it would be the quantity of drug. What we are seeing up there in the Seven Hills area and the Davis-Greer area is minor possession of drugs. It's personal use. It's not something that they have quantities of drugs, baggies of drugs in their possession. They have a very small quantity amounting to personal use at that particular time. That would be considered, in an officer's mind, simple possession. As compared to if they had a pocket full of glassine bags with drugs in it, that would be more than simple possession. That would lead one to believe that they may be distributing drugs and not just using for personal use.
Councillor Panetta Neufeld: Thank you, Chief. Through you, Mr. Chair, to the Chief, does frequency impact this policy at all? So I understand quantity affects this policy, but if an officer is observing someone daily utilizing drugs, does that affect this policy in any way?
Chief Elow: Through the Chair, I'm not sure that it would affect the policy versus the officer's actions. I mean, one of the main purposes for us to be up there in the amount of hours that we're spending up there is to identify persons who are frequently there, who are in need of services. And at that time, we're calling on our colleagues in other city departments, whether it be the Homeless Coalition or otherwise, the Human Health Department, in order to provide services for some of these people. So that's the approach that we have been taking based on the will of the city, based on the will of the council, based on my understanding of what came out of that 2021 order. If I hear differently or I think I'm hearing differently a shift from what was originally the intent of that order, then I think that warrants more discussion, additional discussion and possibly a change in the way we approach. But right now, we're working under the directive of that order. We have been under the philosophy of compassionate policing, under the philosophy of deprioritization and treatment versus incarceration.
Chair McLaughlin: Council, can I interrupt?
Councillor Panetta Neufeld: Through the chair, a shift in action from this order needs to come from the mayor or the city council? Do you know?
Chief Elow: I think through the chair, I think that would be, that would warrant a discussion with key stakeholders in the city, including the administration, the city council, and other key stakeholders. And whatever outcome comes from that would be the way that the Somerville Police Department would adjust its policies so that we're reflecting what the community's will is.
Councillor Panetta Neufeld: Thank you, Chief. Through the chair, Mr. Chair, if I may continue, I noted in your response to Chair McLaughlin about what is the police response if someone's actively using drugs, that officers who are making those observations will make contact with those individuals. I, of course, don't have your words verbatim, but I was taking notes here, have seized those drugs and sent the message that this won't be tolerated. I want to share that that has not been my personal experience or experience from my constituents who directly about the park, who have video and audio picture evidence that that is not the message that is sent. Frankly, the word out there is that the Somerville Police are quite nice and that's why folks keep coming over and over and over again to buy, sell and use drugs in this park. And so I am struggling a little bit with the words that you're sharing that our officers are told to send the message that this won't be tolerated and what is happening in reality and action that I have witnessed is not that that message is sent. And I am curious if having a more forceful message that this won't be tolerated, this is not welcome in our community, this behavior, actively using and selling drugs is not welcome in our community. Is that within the guidelines of the policy order?
Chief Elow: I think there's a couple of variables that we have to really note here. And one of them is that, and I've seen, and the officers have come to me and we've spoken to officers. I've spoken to officers who have been working in that area. One must realize that in some of the cases where someone is reporting "dealing," and I'm not questioning what you've observed personally, but what I am saying is that there is a variable that in some cases to the lay person, the observation of someone using drugs, whether it be heroin or smoking crack cocaine, to them, they call it in as dealing drugs when in fact it's just mere use. We've had undercover officers up in that area now for the last two weeks, more so after the long holiday weekend. And they're up there and they've spent, like I said, close to 100 hours in observation. And when they have made observations of drug distribution, regardless of the quantity, they've acted upon that. And so there is a difference between an officer's observation of a hand-to-hand transaction, whether it be cash exchanging hands or a glassine bag exchanging hands, giving them enough probable cause, enough cause to go up and question those persons and not arbitrarily speak with those people. We have taken action and we have netted now four arrests. And so what I can say to you is that we're trying our best to observe any type of distribution. If that's going on when we're not there or present, that's a different story. But again, there are some of these calls for service for dealing drugs, which do not amount to dealing or distribution of drugs. And it's just mere possession in some cases.
Councillor Panetta Neufeld: Thank you, Chief, through the chair. And I'm not sure if you can speak to this or if it's Liaison Hutter, if neighbors and constituents are interested in voicing their concern about this order, about deprioritization of arrests, is that message best communicated to the mayor?
Chair McLaughlin: Liaison Hutter.
Liaison Hutter: Through the chair, yes, Councilor, if residents like to advocate for any policy change, that can always come to the mayor and also to city councilors as the legislative body. Yeah, they can email the mayor's office anytime.
Councillor Panetta Neufeld: Thank you, Liaison. Mr. Chair, may I continue some questions about-
Chair McLaughlin: Yeah, if you don't mind, Councilor, I'd like to just weigh in on this policy order.
Councillor Panetta Neufeld: Please do.
Chair McLaughlin: As I was one of the people who supported it, and again, still do. First of all, very glad to hear that our policy orders carry so much weight, because I'd love to have something like a vacant properties ordinance that we passed be enforced. So it seems like the council has extraordinary powers that I wasn't aware of, because it is ultimately the mayor in charge of the police department. But let me be clear about my position on public drug use. And as someone who, again, I think there's a big difference between deprioritizing arrests for possession and having no laws. And I think there's a difference there. And I would say, as someone who grew up in the city, kids drinking in a public park, that's illegal. You don't have to arrest a kid to get the point across. You can confiscate their alcohol, tell them they can't drink in the public park. If adults were smoking cigarettes in a public park, that's illegal. You can tell them you can't smoke in this public park. I think that's really what I would like to see happen citywide in general. I think this talk of the policy order really is like, I don't know where, I guess we need more clarification on it. Because my position is, yes, I would rather not see someone get arrested for simple possession and have them go through the court system. And this was also, by the way, conversations I've had with police at the time, who agreed with me on this position and guided me on this. So that's where I'm at. And I will add to that, I am glad to hear that there is enforcement of drug distribution, which I definitely view as very different from possession, because it's a difference between a victim and a victimizer. And I think that's one of the things that I'd like to talk more about in many issues in the city, is the difference between a perpetuator of violence or crime versus a victim of that. I see both Chief and Liaison Hutter have their hand raised. I guess I'll recognize Liaison Hutter first. I defer to the Chief and speak after him if necessary. Chief? Chief, you're muted.
Chief Elow: Thank you, through the Chair. For the benefit of those who don't know what that order was, and I read from it, it was created with the spirit of the police department create a formal policy to decriminalize or deprioritize arrest for drug possession and prioritize treatment over incarceration. At the time, back in 2021, there was a lot of discussion going on, back and forth, whether or not we could actually have an officer or take the discretion away from an officer to make an arrest. And that's why we wrote thereafter a policy based on the will of the council to deprioritize and to prioritize the treatment. Those are the guidelines that officers are going by. And you have to put yourself in a situation where the officers need guidance, because if they deviate from that guidance, they're going to be criticized and often are. So they're trying their best, the men and women on the department are trying their best to follow what we have as a policy now. And so if we're going to think about changing it in any way, shape, or form, again, it would warrant discussion with city leaders and whatever that outcome of that discussion would be, we will adjust our policy thereafter.
Chair McLaughlin: Thank you. Thank you, Chief. And I'll just say the policy as you read it, I still agree with speaking for myself. Again, I think there's a difference between arrest and not having enforcement at all. That's what that's my point. Liaison Hutter.
Liaison Hutter: To the chair, to the chair, wanted to add that. I think what the chief is highlighting here is that this council at the time put forth this order, and that has become city policy for the police department. And it does embody what we believe as a city to be our shared values in the community amongst the council and amongst the city staff and the mayor. So I want to make clear in chief's remarks around further conversation that this would not simply be an action of the council to change how this would be moving forward, but it would warrant significant discussion with administration and staff, as well as the police department on the merits of changing our current policy that was, you know, initiated by the work of the council and the order reference this evening.
Chair McLaughlin: I'd like to turn it back to council opinion in Newfoundland, but I do just want to state one more time that the policy as has been read, and as has been stated that the police will actually confiscate drugs for people who are possessing drugs, not distributing drugs, and tell people that basically, this isn't going to be tolerated in the neighborhood. That sounds like the current policy. So as long as that's the current policy, that's what I agree with. I think Council Pineda Newfeld, I'll let her speak for herself, actually. So I'll just end there. Council Pineda Newfeld.
Councillor Panetta Neufeld: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think there's, there's, and I appreciate what you said about, you know, there's a difference between deprioritization of arrests and not enforcing the law. I think we have a responsibility as a community to keep people safe and enforce the law. It's not the non-prioritization of arrests, it's the deprioritization of arrests. And the idea, I think the interpretation of the policy on the ground is likely very different than the conversation we're having in this committee meeting. I have been told by folks that I talk to all the time, as I'm walking through the park, that they, you know, our officers are told to stand down, to not even send the message that this won't be tolerated. So I have not seen that be effective. And I'm asking again, we know now that we have folks in the park that are not being good neighbors. And by saying, we're just going to continue to uphold a policy that's being interpreted in a way that allows for open drug use, open selling and use and distribution of drugs in our parks, which is surrounded by youth and families. I'm not entirely sure how to respond to constituents when they ask me what we're doing. What the response that I can say at this moment, based on this conversation, is nothing. We aren't, our police officers have been ordered not to intervene at this moment. And so I ask again, why it's okay for us to be tolerating an open air drug market in our community, adjacent to daycares and surrounded by residence homes. I'm continuing to feel incredibly frustrated that there will not be any changes to the lack of action that has allowed for this. And I and what I said at the beginning, is that it's not just, it's not just the use of drugs or the selling and possession of drugs. But it's leading to constant fighting and arrests and theft. And someone texted me the other morning, they got solicited for prostitution, defecation and urination on public land. It has created an environment in which our park is no longer used for picnics and for catching up with friends and for, you know, singalongs in the park that kids used to go to. It's no longer utilized in the ways even a year ago that I used the park, used to bring a picnic blanket, sit out with my kiddo, I no longer would allow him out of his stroller in the park. And I'm utterly confused why the interpretation of this policy order means that all the residents in our community continue to feel unsafe. I know that's not a question, Mr. Chair, I apologize. I wanted to respond to the conversation about the policy order. I do have other questions. If you would like me to move on to other questions, if that's okay, Mr. Chair.
Chair McLaughlin: Yes, you can proceed.
Councillor Panetta Neufeld: So I'll move on to the public health side and talk specifically about the sharps containers. Appreciate the comprehensive discussion about the sharps container or containers. The first question is about the different types. So there used to be very, very small sharps containers that were black that were zip tied to poles, like the poles that tell you the parking regulations on that street. And those were open containers. I no longer see those in the park, but has been replaced by a large orange box on the floor next to the MBTA grate, which I can speak to in a moment. But I first want to, I guess, ask a question specifically, maybe it's Director Carroll or Liaison Hutter. Are both of those city of Somerville sharps containers? I heard also that ISD is picking up the sharps containers. When I had a conversation with the mayor in August, she told me it was a subcontractor that was involved in sharps pickups. And so I guess I want to get some clarity on, is it the city? Is it a third party? Is it a community partner in terms of the sharps containers that are currently in the park?
Chair McLaughlin: Who was that directed towards? Sorry. I wasn't sure if it was Director Carroll or Liaison Hutter. I see Liaison Hutter's got a hand up.
Liaison Hutter: Thank you. And through the chair, I can answer part of that question with certainty and perhaps Director Carroll can advise on other parts. Otherwise I can get back to you. In terms of the third party vendor, our ISD department collects the sharps, but then they are for disposal. They are collected by a third party. So the ISD department will collect them from the community and then from a pickup point from with our ISD department, they are then disposed of properly. So that is the third party vendor piece. And they also handle other drug paraphernalia that ISD department is collecting. In terms of the boxes in the park, I will defer to Director Carroll. I do not know if there are any other boxes in the park that are not owned by the city. So I don't have an answer on that question. I can get back to you unless Director Carroll has any additional information.
Director Carroll: Through the chair, I think Hannah is able to answer that question better to speak to the three different types of collection. So if that's all right, through the chair, I'd like to allow Hannah to speak to that.
Hannah: Through the chair, so the Somerville Homeless Coalition's street outreach team, as well as some other partnering agencies, we receive single use. They're smaller sharps containers. So it's for a person to carry on on themselves and dispose of their needles appropriately. I think from my understanding and from conversations with individuals inside the encampment, they were the ones that put those small black ones up on the poles and maybe some of those larger ones as a means of being a good neighbor. I know it's a little bit different, but they really are pushing for as well themselves safe disposal of needles. And each person might have their own individual sharps container and then they leave the park and now there isn't a sharps container. So they have tried to always make sure that there are sharps containers available inside the park. And then in the same time, a partnering agency based out of Cambridge, I know they go into the park regularly, retrieve those single person sharps containers, replace them with other ones, as well as the Somerville Homeless Coalition has a kiosk downstairs in our engagement center that individuals can take their sharps containers and dispose of those properly with us. And then we can give them an empty one.
Councillor Panetta Neufeld: Through the chair. Thank you for that. I appreciate that answer. I think the black ones were the personal ones. So the orange container that's there currently next to the great, that is the city's. Councillor Davis brought up the question about replacing broken boxes. That box has a large cutout hole in the top, much larger than would fit a sharp. It is big enough for someone to put their hand in, not like a toddler sized hand, but in a fully adult sized hand. So it doesn't do the job of disposing of a needle and not allowing someone to utilize it again. So I'm not sure if that's a defect of the product, if it's purposefully meant to do that or if it's broken. But the one today, it's the same design that I've seen with that container in the park for weeks. So it doesn't seem to be broken. It just seems to be the design of the container. And I'm here to share. It does not seem to be effective. So, if you can pass that message along, it doesn't kind of do the job of keeping used needles away from folks, certainly not children. I know that wasn't a question. Sorry, Mr. Chair. I also wanted to share that folks are utilizing the MBTA grate in the park to dispose of needles and trash and glass. And when I spoke to the MBTA transit officer who was stationed in Davis Square because of the dramatic increase in bicycles being stolen, I asked about what do they do about that? So those are landing directly on the tracks. So if you are late to work, perhaps it's because there's so many needles on the tracks in the T on the red line. But my question, and I don't know who to direct this to, Mr. Chair, is have we discussed this with the MBTA? Is there any connection and communication with the MBTA about the needles and trash that are coming through the grate from the park?
Chair McLaughlin: Is that to Liaison Hutter, Mr. Chair?
Liaison Hutter: Thank you for the question. I am not involved in any communication with the MBTA on this matter. But it's definitely something that I appreciate you flagging for us and something we can bring up in conversation with them about what they are seeing and how we can collaborate together to address that issue.
Councillor Panetta Neufeld: Thank you, Liaison. And through the, Mr. Chair, through you, I believe these next couple of questions are also for Liaison Hutter. Is there any coordination regionally on kind of the state of Seven Hills Park? You know, it sounds like we have heard from Cambridge about their policy and some of the shifts. I appreciate, Hannah, your insight there. Is there regional coordination happening between our cities?
Chair McLaughlin: Liaison Hutter?
Liaison Hutter: Through the Chair, Councillor, I know that we've had a lot of conversations with our regional partners around what a lot of communities are experiencing because of the shifts in the state's shelter policy system. So I think it is not coincidental, the timing of the things that we are experiencing in our communities and that there are other communities experiencing similar things and different circumstances or details of their situations. We have not, in my role, I have not had any conversations with regional partners specifically on addressing what is unfolding in Seven Hills. I would defer to Hannah and Somerville Homeless Coalition who do work across city and municipal lines and interact with other service providers outside of the city, as well as, I don't know, Director Carroll also works very extensively with our regional partners and can perhaps provide some insight in terms of the perspective I offer, which is very high level advocacy with regional partners to the state for a lot of resources to handle what is now unfolding in a lot of municipalities.
Councillor Panetta Neufeld: Thank you. Director Carroll.
Chair McLaughlin: Thank you, through the Chair.
Chair: Yes, we do have a lot of conversations across the Massachusetts Large City Health Coalition and we have recently had conversations with Cambridge Public Health, my colleagues there. I have reached out to them, I have not heard back from them, but we're just kind of keeping them in the loop, opening up the conversation. Hannah can speak to the work she's doing with some regional outreach teams as well, so that they are engaged and can share information across. I can also say we meet and talk regularly with Arlington and Medford, who have had some similar experiences and we've learned from them and are communicating with them, but we do not have any sort of regional plan between public health. There's no regional approach to our work other than the outreach teams who are regional agencies. We all kind of have some resources within our cities and we talk about those and share best practices and ideas, but I think that's the extent of the regional work in conversations at this point, and certainly through to the Department of Public Health. Councillor?
Councillor: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Similar, or another question about coordination and communication. Again, not sure if it, through you, Mr. Chair, to Director Carroll or Liaison Hunter, can you speak, can anyone speak to what this business outreach has been, you know, the direct-to-butters, Candlewick Press, Bright Horizons, Kindercare, Somerville Theatre, you know, even Atrius and Life Alive, what has been the communication to these small businesses about what's happening in Seven Hills?
Liaison Hunter: Thank you, through the Chair. We have engaged with our economic development team who has relationships with these small businesses and abutting businesses in Davis Square to improve our channels of communication. As Councillor Davis mentioned earlier in this meeting, there has been information shared with constituents who have written into the Mayor's office and we have made our efforts to ensure we are proactively sharing that information and opening up channels for business owners to also communicate with us what they're seeing and similarly hear from them as we continue to respond to the situation. There's certainly ways that we can improve that and we welcome your thoughts on perhaps businesses that we are not in touch with that we can begin building those relationships with. But yes, that is something we are trying to do in this situation.
Chair: Thank you, Liaison. I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, did I cut you off?
Councillor: No, no, I was going to you. I think I only have one or two last questions. Sometimes during the day the encampments are empty of people, so it's just property, just a kind of abandoned property for hours. Is our policy to leave abandoned property in the park? Is there a certain amount of time that an abandoned property would have to be in the park for it to be removed? I'm never sure whether to report something I've seen abandoned for many hours or if our general policy is to leave it be at this point. Liaison?
Liaison Hunter: Mr. Chair, I will defer to Director Carroll on any standing procedures for our staff. I know in previous situations we did have some policies and perhaps Hannah from SHC can also provide additional information. I know that there is a value in allowing folks to retain their belongings, especially when the question of removing someone's belongings comes up. There are factors we want to consider, especially important documentation that they may have left in their materials that we do not want to dispose of that would cause delays in the other services we're working so hard to get them connected to. So on that end I will defer to Director Carroll and Hannah on additional details in this specific context.
Director Carroll: Yeah, when DPW goes through the parks in the mornings or when they do their work in the parks, they are often the ones who will notice belongings if they are left and I don't know their specific policies if they have formal policies. We try to work closely with them and I know there's been a number of occasions when we've reached out to Hannah when we've been made aware of belongings and we try to make every effort to figure out whose belongings those are and that's largely Hannah and the outreach teams that are involved. We have some limited storage at the annex that we can make available if needed and DPW has installed those storage containers. They're small units but at this point we have not utilized them often. Hannah can explain their lockers. They have beautiful lockers within the engagement center but they also have limited capacity in space but it's definitely something that we will work really hard if we are aware of unattended belongings to figure out whose they are and if we can assist in storing them until they can remove them. So I think if constituents have concerns, the appropriate thing to do is as always is put in a call to 311 and then the teams will figure out who can respond. Through the chair, I'd like to pass it to Hannah if she has anything to add on that. They do most of that direct work.
Hannah: Yeah, through the chair, I think actually a great example of this taking place was today. My team reported back to me several times that the park was very quiet. There weren't a lot of people hanging out and my first question back to them was, "Is there stuff still there?" and they said yes and then we kind of take a look around and see, "Okay, well, client A is actually down here in the engagement center meeting with the nurse practitioner and so they had to leave behind their suitcase or their bag and their chair and things like that. So I think although at times it might look abandoned because nobody is there, I do think that we're doing a really good job of engaging the people in that park and pulling them into services that at times it might look as though they've abandoned their space but they do typically end up going back there. If there ever is a case where because our team is out there on a daily basis, they're noticing, "Hey, this stuff is still here and we haven't seen this person in a few days." We can work with, like Director Carroll mentioned, we can work with Health and Human Services and DPW to store some of their belongings. We do also have lockers down the engagement center that can fit probably about two or three backpacks worth of stuff which is great. And like Liaison Hunter said, we do always try to encourage people to leave belongings where they are because a lot of times people are carrying those vital documents inside of their backpacks or important housing applications and the moment that gets taken away kind of sets us back in the entire housing search process. So we try really hard to encourage people to call 311, 311 gets routed to Health and Human Services from my understanding to us and then we can coordinate a plan to address items that might appear to be abandoned or are actually abandoned in the park.
Chair: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will wrap up soon. I want to come back to some of the public safety issues. Did we lose Chief Femino or is he still on our call?
Chief Femino: He's still here.
Chair: Wonderful. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through you to the Chief, can you speak to, I know we spoke extensively about the deprioritization of arrests, particularly for use and possession of drugs. Can you speak to the response from our officers for the physical and the increased physical and verbal violence happening in the park, either between folks who are there or toward residents and constituents?
Chief Femino: To the Chair, Council, I can assure you that if an officer or the officers who are in that area for the amount of times that we've been in that area now and for the hours that we've been in there, obviously if they witness any of that, they're going to take the appropriate action. If it's called into the station as a call for service and we respond, they'll take the appropriate action. But I think what we have to really look at here is that we have a situation where, and I know you made a distinction between homelessness and the encampments and the drug use. However, when we look at these people, we're really looking at, and for the listening audience, we're looking at the tip of an iceberg here. When you look at these people, and beneath that waterline is a story. We haven't seen things through their eyes. We haven't walked through their shoes. And so when you look beneath that waterline, they have a story. And I certainly believe in my own heart that they do not want to be there, whether it be using drugs or as part of an encampment. And so what we're trying to do as a city based on our values is to address this in such a way so that we can look beneath that waterline, beneath that tip of the iceberg, and address some of the issues for these people who don't want to be there. They don't want to be in the situation. And so we're trying to provide services. And that's the philosophy that we and the officers of SPD have been working under. But again, if there's something flagrant, if there's something that is a violation of law that is an arrestable offense, is it going to accomplish anything, arresting someone who's unhoused, bringing them to the Somerville District Court only to have them released in a matter of hours, and then they're back at the park. So we want to try to resolve the issue by getting to the underlying problem and trying to resolve those issues too. So I understand the complexity of the issue, and it is a very complex issue. And so I think, again, when it comes to the response of the SPD, there's been many instances where there have been officers have been approached by citizens up in Davis Square, and they're asked, why are they harassing those persons who are encamped there? And so they're in a situation where they're trying to balance what we're trying to do so that it's not perceived that we're criminalizing homelessness, so that it's not perceived that police officers are not taking a compassionate approach. And it's a balancing act. And I understand that the people who live in that area are frustrated. And I don't think that we're going to come to a resolution tonight here at this meeting, but I think it warrants further discussion at the city level as to, we've talked a lot about reimagining policing in the last three years. And it's come to the point where we're trying to have a community input driven police department. And so the services we provide are supposed to be based on what the community's desire is. If the community's desire is to have a zero tolerance up at that area, for whether it be drug use or encampments, then that's what we will try to follow. But right now, that's not the will of the community as I see it. It's not the will of the community that's been expressed thus far. And so we're trying to balance that with the will of the community.
Councillor: Mr. Chair, through you, thank you, Chief. I appreciate that response and I appreciate reminding us that folks have, everyone has a story. Certainly I never advocate to arrest the unhoused. That is not anything I've come close to sharing this evening in my remarks. And I appreciate, I've always appreciated the delicate balance our officers have to dance with, particularly around Davis Square. I speak to them frequently in my walks to and from daycare and I show my utmost appreciation for what they deal with. I think I want to share that we're forgetting to talk about the families and neighbors who abut this park, use this park, the residents who walk through this park every day. And I, Chief, I'm sorry you said that folks are frustrated and maybe you're hearing my sense of frustration. I want to say that people are scared, that my neighbors are scared, that I am scared when I walk through the park with my child, that I am not a mom who had a toddler walk over to a used needle. That was a mom in my daycare. If that was my child, I wouldn't leave City Hall until this policy changed. My constituents are scared. It is not coming from a place of anger or frustration. It's coming from wanting to utilize our spaces and our parks the way they've been meant to be utilized. And so I just want to remind us that a part of the story that we're trying to paint tonight is that there are residents and neighbors as well who've been dealing with these issues every single day at all hours of the day, that their backyards abut the community path and they're losing sleep over the fights and yelling that are happening in the park. They're waking up to feces on their front porch. I want to make sure that that is clear in my statements, that I never advocated for criminalizing homelessness or arresting someone because they're unhoused. I'm just trying to have folks understand who are on this call tonight. My constituents are on this call tonight and I hope we get some chance to hear directly from people about their experiences, what our city policies are and what are the opportunities to shift that. You mentioned, Chief, if the will of the neighbors is to shift that, then we can have that conversation. And I think tonight you'll probably hear a different perspective than perhaps you've been hearing from members of the administration. So I just wanted to clarify based on that conversation. And I see, Mr. Chair, other people have their hand raised.
Chair: Liaison Hunter, do you have your hand raised?
Liaison Hunter: Yes, thank you, Chair, through you. I wanted to take the opportunity to respond to some of the, to add on to some of the things that the Chief has just mentioned and try to bring some clarity to the remarks I made earlier. And I want to say directly to Councilor Pineda-Newfields that we hear you. We do. We've heard from constituents that it's been very clear that there are needs for folks in the area who live there, who work there, who play there. That has been loud and clear and is the reason why multiple city departments are working to address, to make changes and to evaluate how, what we are responding and how that can be different. We are in ongoing conversations. We are regularly getting updates, evaluating our response and anticipating what we will need to do to address what we have heard already from constituents. So I want to just say that. I don't want it to go, I understand how rapidly this area has changed, and I just want to make clear that the administration, part of our value, I think from every city department and from the administration, is safety, as we've said today, but that includes, I know we've spoken a lot tonight about those who are unhoused and their needs. They are very vulnerable. They have a lot of needs, but we know that safety includes those who live in the area, those who work in the area, and those who visit the area, play in the area. And that is shaping our ongoing response. And we will continue to work to communicate our responses. And I know that everyone who is in the area would love for that response to have happened multiple weeks ago, and we are working as swiftly as we can to make changes that are aligned with what we're able to do and what is in line with being the most compassionate to everyone involved. So I just wanted to share that and thank you for your advocacy for yourself and for your residents. It is really important that we hear from folks, and I'm glad that you have been able to advocate so clearly for those things and just want to remark that we hear you and we are working on those things. Thank you.
Chair: Thank you. Any final questions or comments from the committee?
Councillor: I'm all set, Mr. Chair. Thank you for giving me the time and space tonight.
Chair: Thank you. Okay, so I'd like to just quick comment, which I feel like I've repeated a few times. I am just frustrated by the stated policy and what we're saying we're doing and compared to what it seems like is being done. It feels weird that we're all seemingly in agreement on the stated policy, but I'm reminded three or four times what the policy is and if we'd like to change it, we can talk about that. I think the policy as stated is the policy that I'd pursue. I just don't know if that is the on-the-ground policy. So I'll leave it at that, but I do also want to acknowledge that it is a very difficult job and position for the police to be in. They're not here to solve homelessness and we have put this on them and I have heard stories about people like police intervening to help people and hearing about it from the public. So I do understand how complicated it is, but it does feel strange to me that we've stated the policy three or four times tonight as if we're having a disagreement. So I'm going to leave it at that. Councilor Davis, these were your items. Would you like to mark these work complete or would you like to hold on to these for future?
Councillor Davis: I think we've discussed these items. Before we take action on them, I think if we're going to hear from the public, I think we would leave the items open, but depending on how that goes, these are discrete requests. They've been filled. I think I'll go back and check while we're hearing from folks, but we can circle back. We have these meetings regularly anyway, so this topic is going to come up regardless of there being additional items. This was, as I said, specifically to really accelerate the conversation to make sure that we had a robust discussion in this meeting. So I appreciate, again, you putting them on the agenda. Subject to hearing something that suggests otherwise, yeah, I think once we've had completed the conversation, we can mark them complete, and then obviously that won't end the conversation to the discussion, as we've said, but for these particular items, I think that would be appropriate.
Chair: You are correct that we should have public comment first before we mark them work complete. We also do have items regarding safe consumption sites that you put in, Councilor Davis. Time now is 8:15. We're kind of over the regular slated time, and that feels like a whole conversation in itself. Would you feel comfortable leaving that in committee?
Councillor Davis: I think that discussion, while it certainly is related, and I certainly will love to hear if and when there's some real sort of movement on that. I don't anticipate that there will be necessarily at this stage, but I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think that discussion deserves its own air and its own space, so I'm happy to take that up in the next meeting if that's your opinion.
Chair: Okay, thank you. Yeah, we'll leave those in committee, and let's see, and then also the items regarding ISD, Mr. Clerk, we can mark those work complete if there's no objection from the committee. I thank the city for getting me that information, and with that, I do see people raising their hands already. There are still over 114 people in attendance. Pete, thank you all for being patient and for listening. I would like to acknowledge you all. Just a reminder that this is not a formal public hearing, so the time now is 8:16. I think I'd like to have a hard stop at 8:45, and with a two-minute limit for each person to speak. Again, this is not a formal public hearing, which means that two-thirds of the committee needs to agree to let anyone speak, and I remind people to please be polite, be respectful of everybody's time, and the hard work people in the community are doing to address this. So any objections from the committee to sponsoring some speakers?
Councillor Saeed: Mr. Chair, I just wanted to ask if it would be possible to take a few minutes break before we hear from the public.
Chair: Sure. What do you think, five minutes or so?
Councillor Saeed: Yeah.
Chair: Okay. We'll take a quick five-minute break, and I'll expand it. We'll do a hard stop at 8:50 for public comment. We'll be right back, everyone. This committee is in recess.
[Break]
Chair: All right, council, it's 8:22. Can you turn your cameras on and let me know when you're ready.
Chair: All right, everyone looks ready, we're back from recess. Mr. Clerk, please call the roll to establish a quorum.
Clerk: This is roll call, Councillor Syed.
Councillor Syed: Here.
Clerk: Councillor Davis.
Councillor Davis: Here.
Clerk: Councillor McLaughlin.
Councillor McLaughlin: Here.
Clerk: Mr. Chair, all members are present, we have a quorum.
Chair: Okay, thank you, everyone. I'm gonna start recognizing speakers. As a reminder, we're gonna have a hard stop at 8:50. As a reminder to people as well, I mentioned a few times this is not a formal public hearing, which is a procedural thing, maybe lost on some people. But if people wanna contact the full council or the mayor, I should add, you can email the entire council at citycouncil@somervilleMA.gov. You can also contact the mayor's office at mayor@somervilleMA.gov. And again, this is a public comment for the city council, not the mayor's office. If you would like to contact the mayor separately, I'd encourage you to do that. So first person I see on the list is Todd Kaplan. And again, please keep everything to two minutes. Please state your full name and where you live, Todd Kaplan.
Rivka: Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, somehow Todd got his. So I wanted to say a few things and-
Chair: Could you address yourself, Rivka?
Rivka: Yes, my name is Rivka Lapidis. My title is doctor, I have a doctorate in clinical psychology. I live on [redacted]. I've been living here since 1980, and I wanna say something about that year. Because that will kind of give you some background about how things are the way they are. When I moved to Somerville, I was young and well now I'm old, senior citizen. I moved here and had little kids. And I worked, I had a job as a therapist at the methadone clinic. And I was introduced to the idea of stigma and how people were stigmatized and talked about. And get out of here, you can't go there, you can't go here, you can't go to the Lucci Park, you can't go to Horta Square. The people who were the sickest and had the greatest problems were the most visible. But there were also people who were professionals on methadone in treatment. And in those days, the neighbors did not want methadone there. That was on Beacon Street at the time. Now it's in another place closer to North Cambridge. There was stigma. My kids went, my daughter was three. She came when she didn't have daycare. I brought her to the counseling center. She met addicts. She met people with substance use disorder. I'd rather not label them as addicts. The problem going on now started during the Reagan years, and it's increased and increased and increased as services have been pulled back, defunded, mental health care, everything. There used to be a lot more facilities around here. The problem increasing now has many factors. And I really appreciate the counselor from Ward 7's here. It's hard to have young children and see this stuff. But what we have to look at is the roots. And then I'm hearing tonight is all of the services that you all are doing. I've been writing notes with Karen, Carol, and the police. I've seen you in Davis Square. I live in Davis Square. I've seen the people. I've talked with them. The problem going on with drugs right now, with opiates, is that there's a tainted drug supply with fentanyl. And people are dying because of that. And also because they don't have a safe place to go and talk to a counselor. I know I've worked a little bit with Hannah. We've talked about doing Narcan runs to CVS. But there isn't a coordinated site for health care for the homeless and people who want to use safely and dispose of needles. There's no building. The term safe consumption site is very inflammatory. So I won't go there. But I do want to say that I support treatment. And I really support the way the police have been handling, from what I've seen, handling folks in Davis Square. I would-- if my kids were little and I was younger again, I would do the same things. It's scary to see needles and see what you're seeing. That can be addressed. But it's not because the police are too soft. And the problem-- and I'll finish up. Getting rid of homelessness and drug users by moving them onto something else does not solve anything. It's what Mayor Giuliani did in New York City. He cleaned up Times Square, but pushed people out somewhere else. And you see this all over the country. You move them out, get them out. Just get them-- they're not good neighbors. They need something that we're not offering. And I would be happy to help with any of the efforts that the city is undertaking. I've been frustrated at the lack of response from the mayor. And I'm very enheartened to hear about some of the resources that you're providing. And just to finish, when Joe Piertanen was mayor, who knows what he would have done. But it was back before the pandemic. I was on the working group, the task force, for establishing safe consumption in Somerville in the areas of most need. A place for comfort, to begin a relationship, to give information about treatment, to maybe even take a shower if we had that resource. We never got there. And it's very, very frustrating. And I think that-- I'm sorry, is it Judy from Ward 7? I'm sorry for the fear, and I understand it. But we can't just move them out and terrorize them. And personally, I'm more disturbed by cigarette smoking and the smell of weed in the streets than anything else. And I wish we could deal with that. So thank you for letting me ramble a bit. But I'm in the ward, in Ward 6, and I absolutely support resources here and not pushing people out or stigmatizing or imprisoning them. And that's my piece. Thank you.
Chair: Thank you, Rivka.
Councillor: Mr. Chair, a real quick piece, if I could. So I appreciate Dr. Lapidus. And I think, Mr. Chair, you said it's a request of a two-minute time frame. I know we don't have a timer, but--
Chair: We just got the timer up, yeah.
Councillor: OK, good, good, thank you. Because I just think it's a-- and I love to hear all of this. But I would also ask for if perhaps we could just push to a 9 o'clock stop, just so that we-- given how many people we have. If you can go less than two minutes and make your point, great. If it's something that we've already heard, maybe we don't need to hear it again, just so that we can get as many people in here as possible, so that we can hear more voices. Thank you.
Chair: That sounds fine. Ruby, is that good with you, Councillor Sayeed?
Councillor Sayeed: Yes. Yes.
Chair: We'll go to 9, good point. And yes, please, Peter, keep the two-minute timer going. And again, I'll just add to people, too. We're going to try to avoid a back and forth here. So we're going to just let people speak on the record. And you can email the council or contact your city councillors directly as well. Next up, I see Blair Galinsky. Blair, if you could give your name and address.
Blair: Can you hear me now?
Chair: We can hear you.
Blair: Thank you for the opportunity to share my perspective. Blair Galinsky. I've lived and worked in [redacted] for nearly 30 years. I've never seen anything like this current public safety fiasco. We live along the bike path. The sights and sounds coming off the bike path are abrasive. They're upsetting. We've personally witnessed and seen contorted, unconscious people every day. We hear screaming at nighttime, cursing at all hours, stealing of Amazon packages, breaking into the cars, public intoxication, passed out bodies. It's scary and unpredictable. I have pictures, which I could share if you could let me. Or I'll just describe what I have here. I have pictures of calling the police, first responders to come and respond. I've called Cambridge and Somerville on numerous occasions because I'm the property manager here. We constantly have to pick up stolen, abandoned property, crack pipes, dirty clothing, human excrement. And I have bags of Narcan packs and needles. No one seemed to have a clear understanding here, so I reached out to the first responders in Ward 7. I went up to Teal Square, talked to the firemen. I talked to West Somerville substation police officers. They also are upset. And I'm telling you what they told me privately, that they would like more help. I said to them, what can we do to help you to help us? They said, you need to organize, get petitions, and demand city officials to give us the resources and support necessary to do our jobs. I was told that there's attrition in the police department and low morale. I know Chief Femino. I like him. He's helped me in the past. But the police on the street are asking for more help. The city has reduced the drug task force, the officers, from six to two officers is what I've been told.
Judy Panetta-Newfield: This is an urgent public safety emergency. I think the city is exposed to enormous legal liability. They're not enforcing Mass General Law Controlled Substance Act. They're not enforcing their own city ordinance, which does not allow camping in the parks, does not allow smoking in the parks, does not allow it.
Chair: If you would like to share those pictures, you can, again, email us at citycouncil@somervillema.gov. And I think I would love to hear more of what you have to say. But for now, we'll move on to the next speaker. Last question.
Judy Panetta-Newfield: Yes, yes. Last comment, the last little line I just wanna share is that the police said to me, the men I talked to, that we need to take the handcuffs off the cops and put them on the criminals. Now, I'm just sharing what I've heard from our officers on the street. Thank you.
Chair: Thank you. Next up, we have Jim Harrison.
Jim Harrison: Hi, Jim Harrison down in 11th and 46th Avenue and Street. Yeah, so my thing is I just have people that work and had a woman for the night leave here, restaurant in town. And again, someone's pulled a knife on her son, she gets threatened all the time. So just adding on to what everybody else says, it's just a really unsafe situation, and compassionate for it, but very unsafe. Appreciate what people are doing, but can't go on just to attack more people. That's all I got.
Chair: All right, thank you. Next, I see Jonah Abrams.
Jonah Abrams: Can you hear me?
Chair: We can hear you.
Jonah Abrams: Okay, great, thank you. My name is Jonah Abrams, I live near Davis Square. And I just wanna say, I think, and from what I gathered, what I've heard, that the city thinks they are doing what the residents want. We heard Chief Amino say over and over again that they're just complying with this order that was written in 2021 that reflects community values. And I'm not so sure you have a great read of what community values are, or those community priorities might have changed since 2021. We've seen the reality of what that order has revealed. And just so you don't think this is coming from some weird MAGA right-wing perspective or something, I think of myself as a progressive. I know Somerville is a generally progressive place. I voted along progressive lines my entire life. But this is where my progressive sympathies stop when it comes to anti-social behavior and community and neighborhood degradation. I am so sick of hearing all of this framed in terms of compassionate policing and not enforcing drug laws and harm reduction, and everything like that. I mean, the list of things that Director Carroll of the HHS said, which are going to attract and retain people. Comments that Councilor Davis made that, well, maybe offering some of these services does encourage people to come to Davis Square. Maybe it doesn't, that's unacceptable to encourage people to come to Davis Square. We need to be making arrests, arrest people for hard drug possession, arrest people for public intoxication, arrest people for other anti-social crimes, excuse me. Clear out the encampments. I mean, the goal here should be to make this a place where people who are homeless, drug users, and criminals don't want to hang out. Not a comfortable, tolerant place that encourages them to stay. And I'd like to thank Judy Panetta-Newfield for being the only person in this meeting expressing the same perspective on this, and Chairman McLaughlin, too, to a more limited degree. I think both of you are probably more compassionate and empathetic about this than I am, and that's great, that's a good quality. But I think the rest of this committee and the rest of the people in this meeting are prioritizing the needs of criminals over the needs of residents, and I ask a stop.
Chair: Thank you, next we have John Link.
John Link: Hi, sorry, can I be, am I heard?
Chair: Yeah, we can hear you.
John Link: Sorry, I was muted. I want to offer an opposite perspective. I think that absolutely, we should be following a compassionate response. These are actual people, and it's 100% within the bounds of reason that we treat humans as humans and not as trash. I think there was a conversation teed up about the safe consumption sites. There is an alternative that's kind of been springing up in Boston, which is spot sites, which is a little bit different from the safe consumption in that they don't get to actually inject or use there, but they ride out the high. And they also are then offered engagement and treatment. And I think that that's something that if safe consumption doesn't seem like something that's gonna get off the ground, we should be looking at. And I just wanna really strongly commend the police chief and the police force and everyone else that's involved in trying to figure out how to do this in a compassionate and humane way, thank you.
Chair: Thank you. And if everyone, if you're done speaking, could you please lower your hand, the little hand icon, so I can tell who's next. I see Frank Lee is next.
Harriet Ranvey: It's actually Harriet Ranvey.
Chair: It's Harriet Ranvey.
Harriet Ranvey: Hi, Matt.
Chair: Hi, Harriet.
Harriet Ranvey: Well, I feel like it's already been said by Judy and I mean by Rivka and the previous speaker. I am blind, I am 78, I've lived here since 1983. Okay, blind lady walks through the city all the time. So my feeling is, I work with disabled people in advocacy. And let me tell you, friends, if you cannot walk in other's shoes, and you just, I've also worked in the prisons, people, they're not evil or bad. And I just feel it's criminal that we think we can isolate ourselves in our little comfortable middle class world when the whole world is experiencing homelessness. It's insane. Do you think we have any housing? Do you know that since 1980, systematically HUD has been defunded? And I am looking for housing, accessible housing for people who are wheelchair users, good luck. And keep in mind, there are veterans in the park. There are unhoused veterans. And we think we can just say, somebody else take care of it. That's all I have to say. And so I feel deeply moved by the chief and by everyone who's spoken towards humanity. And it isn't pretty, because we haven't taken responsibility as a larger community. That's all I have to say. And I'm sure other people will judge me harshly, but check out being blind and walking through the world and the tea and everywhere with a cane. Thank you.
Chair: Thank you. Next up we have Scott Gunther.
Scott Gunther: Yes, hi. I actually just have a criticism about the process tonight that I feel like for over two hours, we just sat there and listened to you guys talk and say the same things over and over. When actually it could have been more productive if we were allowed to participate more.
Chair: Okay, so again, this is not a formal public hearing. This is a committee meeting, one that we do monthly. That was advertised to the public. So I just like to give people an opportunity to speak. But this is different than a public hearing. This is an information session for the committee. But again, there are other avenues to reach out to city councilors. And the mayor. Next up I see ND, if you could please give your full name and address.
Nat Dymkowski: All right, thanks. Yeah, sorry, my Zoom username. This is Nat Dymkowski. I'm at [address redacted]. And thanks, everyone. I appreciate your hard work on this issue and appreciate the chance to speak. I'll keep it brief. I grew up in the city as a child right around Davis Square. Played in the same park that has all the issues today. And it's been super sad to see. I wanna emphasize the distinction between homelessness and criminal and antisocial behavior. Similar to Ward 7 counselor focusing on the latter as there's always been homelessness in Davis Square without significant issues over the years. I've heard continuously tonight that our policy is that open air drug use is not tolerated as described by the Ward 7 counselor, the police chief, kind of like everyone here tonight. And not being tolerated to me implies that there's a penalty, a consequence, a means of prevention that's being applied. But everything I've heard today sounds like we're tolerating and allowing open air drug use without consequence. And so I don't really understand where we expect the outcome to be here or how we're upholding this policy of not tolerating it, if so. So I'd like to pose this question. What specific action today prevents the tolerance of open air drug use in the city?
Chair: All right, thank you. We won't be responding to this, but I think it is a good question to ask. Thank you, though. Next question is Erica Ness.
Erica Ness: Hi, I'm Erica Ness at [address redacted]. And I just wanted to address what the resolution of this problem is. Because I will not be satisfied until I go to the park and I see what I saw as of last July, many people of different groups, not just this one group, sitting in the park peacefully. In the seven years I've lived here, there have been homeless people in this park. We have peacefully coexisted. We weren't even asking, are you homeless? Are you not homeless? Okay, and if someone's sleeping at night, you just walk past. We are feeling intimidated out of the use of this park by people who are violent. I looked in the police logs, there have been arrests for assault and robbery. There has been a report of a knife fight and other people here have reported the same thing. I have had someone try to start a fight with me across the street from my home. I have never felt unsafe in any neighborhood in Boston, including Central and East Boston. And now I feel unsafe here. And I'm not hearing the city supporting an end result of the park being reclaimed as a park. So that is my statement.
Chair: All right, thank you. Next we have Christina Briggs, Christine Briggs.
Christine Briggs: Hi, I was just trying to unmute. Yes, thanks so much for giving me the time to just offer my comment. You began with Rivka who I know I think she and my daughter went to school together. We live much closer to the issue than Rivka does. So I think she has a very sympathetic view and I appreciate that very much. But we live right across the street from the park. Our neighbor had some security footage, someone trying to break into her house while she was there, home alone with her baby. Police came, of course, he was long gone. So the issue is much more frightening to people who are right here than people who live even if just a few blocks away. So Rivka brought up this idea of safe spaces for people to take drugs if they have to because they're addicted. That's right, but Seven Hills Park is not that place. My interest has been in exploring what Michelle Wu in Boston has done. I was reading about it yesterday to see if they've been doing what I was thinking would be a good approach is to have a central location. I think it said something about in the article that they allocated some city space where they could coordinate all the different services that are necessary, including triage for those who need medical care or rehab or mental illness treatment because those, that's many of the people there are, I feel they fall into several categories. People who are homeless because they lost their job or they were ill. Their needs are a lot simpler than the ones who are there because they have past criminal behavior history, maybe they've been arrested before, they're gonna have a very hard time getting a job. Even if they're no longer interested in engaging in criminal activity, there's people who just are criminals. They're there because they see a vulnerable population. So if people are buying drugs-
Chair: Christine, your time's expired. Sorry, I wanna keep it moving, but please feel free to email us. Yes, last comment.
Christine Briggs: Yeah, last comment was the idea of having a central location. I just wanted to point out that three, four years ago Governor Baker deployed the National Guard in Western Mass to get help for the homeless population there. And they set up, so anyway, they're well equipped to set up an infrastructure where all those resources can be made available to people. And I would like to see something like that.
Chair: Thank you. Next up we have Nick Piatas. Nick, you might have to unmute on your side. Are you there, Nick? All right, we'll come back to Nick. We have Mary, let's see, Daniel Carrega.
Daniel Carrega: Yes, can you hear me now?
Chair: We can hear you.
Daniel Carrega: Yes, I'm on [address redacted]. I'm a long time resident of Somerville, over 20 years. First of all, I wanted to thank Judy. She really spoke out well on behalf of so many of us here and our frustration on what's going on. And I just wanted to speak on behalf of my neighborhood here. Basically, starting with my wife, for example, she takes the T on a daily basis. She sees deals going on, drug deals pretty much on a daily basis as well. My son goes to the high school, same thing. He sees guys basically overdosing all the time. I myself have been harassed a couple times, threatened on one occasion. And it's just getting worse and worse. And it's getting to a point where we don't feel safe in the neighborhood. And just basically, we'd like to know, people like us, what do we do? What's, we don't feel safe, so what's the answer? So I know we've spoken a lot about the needs of the homeless and the drug users, but not much about what do the neighbors do as far as how to feel safer in the neighborhood. Cuz right now we feel like we're living in a drug infested neighborhood and that's just not, we just don't feel safe anymore, so that's my take.
Chair: Thank you, next we have Mary Sherman.
Mary Sherman: Yeah, hi, my name is Mary Sherman. I live on [address redacted], so right off the bike path. I first wanted to thank you all for publicizing this meeting. It's been really informative to understand what's going on in our local area. Also just wanna express compassion for both the people impacted, the neighbors and the individuals in the park, as well as the individuals here working hard to support. I moved to this neighborhood from Roxbury and before that from Los Angeles. So I've seen how bad and addictive drugs can be to these populations and how debilitating it can be. And from that, I think the biggest takeaway I've had is that it takes collective effort and coordination amongst local groups. So I would definitely like to understand how Somerville City Council is partnering with both the City of Boston and Cambridge to coordinate an effort. It's a small town, realistically people are mobile and so we aren't gonna solve the issue just by trying to isolate it and solve it here, first work together. That's all, thank you.
Chair: Thank you, next up we have Matthew Taylor.
Matthew Taylor: Hey, I'm Matthew Taylor, I live over at [address redacted]. I just wanna say that I really appreciate the current approach. I do think that harm reduction oriented approaches that deprioritize arrests and work to provide supports for folks are evidence based and effective approaches. I do really hear the fear and the frustration that has been expressed, especially by folks around Davis. And I do think it's incredibly important to make sure everyone feels safe. However, when we talk about increasing arrests and taking punitive measures, I don't think that's what's best for the community or what creates a safe community. Addressing fear and reducing arrests are not mutually exclusive. It's because of fear that people feel and the desire for a safe community for everyone that I support taking evidence based harm reduction oriented and inclusive measures. I love living in Somerville and I love living in a place that prioritizes harm reduction and it is what makes me feel safe, thank you very much.
Chair: Thank you, next up we have Sierra Harkin.
Sierra Harkin: Hi, so my name is Sierra Harkin, I live on [address redacted], so not immediately adjacent to Davis. But I just wanted to say, I've been in Somerville for five years or so. My partner previously lived on Meacham Road just right outside of Davis. I've commuted on the T, I've gone through kind of the parking question. So I'm very empathetic for the individuals that are immediately adjacent to it. I also think for all of us that are incredibly privileged to have homes and not worry about being unhoused. We're looking at this from a different perspective. That said, I also don't wanna hear moms being scared of their kids getting needle sticks or anything from things that aren't being disposed of correctly. So I just wanna say having listened to this for the last more than two hours now, I just wish that we could approach this perhaps being a little less married to one single solution. So I think thinking of alternative disposal methods is great. Trying to resource these individuals that need access to resources to change the situations that they're in is great. I don't know if this needs to be like a broader multi-town discussion of like generating like vouchers for housing or hotels or something to give people a place to go. But yeah, I understand everyone's concerns in the community. I just think that sort of one of the counselors said about kind of trying to figure out the best way to approach a solution. And this sort of bogging us down in terms of temporal time to actually address people's concerns. I'd just like to see us maybe pilot some things more quickly or like try to seek out additional solutions.
Chair: Thank you. Next we have Paul Christie.
Paul Christie: Hi, can you hear me?
Chair: We can hear you.
Paul Christie: Great, hi, thank you for the opportunity. My name is Paul Christie. I live over on [address redacted]. I also own a business in Davis Square. So I just wanted to add that perspective. Over the past year, I've been organizing Davis Square merchants and we've been having monthly meetings with the city, with members of the city. I think it was back in April when we had a meeting specifically about issues with safety and drug use in the square. And I can tell you that it's been a huge concern for businesses in the square. Even back then, we had advocated for there to be a neighborhood sort of street cop to help things. And they did seem to put one on and things seem to be getting better for a little bit, but it's just kind of exploded this summer especially. I can't tell you how many businesses have had issues with break-ins, with people shooting up on their premises. I know a lot of the restaurants around here have been having issues just getting their doors open with cleaning up refuse from drug use from the night before. And overall, I think one of the main issues is that pretty much across the board, whether you're a restaurant or you're offering a service from orthodontics to retail, business is down considerably this year. And I think part of it is because the impression people have of Davis Square isn't one where they wanna come and shop and eat. And I think it's definitely affecting our area in that regard. And I just wanted to put that out there.
Chair: All right, thank you. So I see we have three more people with their hands raised. It's 8.58, I will recognize these final three speakers. That's Brian Kim, Stephan DeGoyer, and Nick Paedis, Brian.
Brian Kim: Hi, hello, I'm Brian Kim from [address redacted]. Yeah, so I think, thank you everyone for voicing concerns and thank you counselors for working on this. So first, thank you for Judy for expressing really the neighbors concerns. I think people were feeling that, we were feeling that. I mean, especially for my wife, less for me, right? So, and the second point I wanna make, someone already made it. But I wanna make sure that we differentiate the homeless problem and the drug usage problem. So I think, I'm okay with the homeless. I mean, we want wanna help, right, with those. But with the drug usage, I mean, that's a little more scarier issue. So, I wanna make sure we have, you make sure those two are different issues when we talk. And I do feel compassionate for the people involved. But I want to ask people to also feel compassionate for residents who feel unsafe, especially kids and women, right? I mean, who just feel unsafe, right? So, just anecdote that I remember like last year, like I used to see children just walking in the park in two columns. It's from, I think, the daycare, but I also see kids selling lemonades. I don't think I saw that any time in this year, so I don't know. That's kind of sad. So, and finally, the prioritization of the IRS is good. I think we wanna use a more kind of a better approach in addressing the problem. But we need to use an approach that is effective, right? I mean, if the other approach that we're using is not really effective in reducing the drug usage, maybe we should think about other alternative approach. So, that's all, thank you, guys.
Chair: Thank you, and Paul, Christy, you're still unmuted. Could you mind muting yourself? Stefan DeGoyer, DeGoyer, sorry if I mispronounced.
Stefan DeGoyer: Hello, does this work?
Chair: Yeah, we can hear you.
Chair: Peter, Peter, can you mute Paul, Christy, please? All right, Stefan, you're on the floor.
Stefan DeGoyer: Yeah, I live on [address redacted], right next to the park. And I'm 18, I'm a senior in high school. But I came here when I was 12, and I didn't think that I would ever grow up and be seeing the stuff that I've been seeing just this past summer. And I feel like there hasn't really been a perspective from a young person on this cause much. But I've seen needles all along the park, and this is a park I used to play at when I was younger. And I've seen people having sex in the middle of the, like right next to the park in broad daylight. I've seen fights, I've seen poop on the ground instead of the porta potty. And the porta potty isn't even being used to poop or pee or anything like that. I've seen multiple people in there come out there, I've seen them come out with needles. Me and my friends have heard people having sex in the porta potty in daytime too, but this isn't night time or anything. In the backyard of my house, I've seen homeless people just walking through. And I don't feel safe here, like walking my friends, or anyone, or my girlfriend, just anything, I don't really feel safe. And I used to walk around here at like 12. I used to just be able to walk around and feel perfectly fine. But I'm 17, I feel less safe than I did at 12. And I don't feel like it's the homelessness problem. Like I don't blame the homeless, I blame the drug use. Because I've known plenty of homeless people around Davis Square. And over the years, just gotten to know them better. And a lot of them are good people, but this is separate. It's not the homelessness that I think is a huge problem. We've always kind of just coexisted. It's mostly just the drug use. Like, they're literally doing like hard drugs. And I feel like nothing's happening. And I don't know. I don't know if this is like helpful, but this just feels like a perspective from a younger person, because I feel like I don't feel safe anymore here.
Chair: Thank you. And last speaker will be Nick Piatas. Nick, are you here now?
Nick Piatas: Hey, yeah, thank you. Apologies for being muted earlier. I had to change my settings. But first of all, thank you to the council for facilitating this discussion. And I appreciate all resource groups that are contributing to solving this issue of both houselessness and then also the use of Statue Park, Seven Hills Park. I'd love to as, sorry, I live on [address redacted]. I used to live on Thorndike here in Davis Square. I frequently run through the park to run to the bike path, and we'll hang out with friends there, usually in the evenings playing Uno after work. And so, love using that park. It's a multipurpose space for all citizens within the community. But I'd love to see the city put forward ordinances where we are able to use that park as it was intended as a community space, while also providing space for the houseless community to continue to live unhoused while they're getting other resources. So pretty much a relocation program within our city. So we can be leaders within our community and show that we care about those who are the most vulnerable within our community, while solving the immediate issue of being able to use that park. So we'd love to see the council work together with those resource departments to be able to put that temporary solution forward. So those vulnerable populations are able to get their needs met while the community are also able to use their public spaces. And yeah, thank you. Appreciate your guys's time. I know it's a complex issue.
Chair: All right, thank you. And thank you everyone for attending. There are still over 100 people at this meeting. This is a heavy subject. Just so people know, I try to hold public health and safety committee meetings monthly and every month we do address homelessness, as well as issues, other public health issues in the community like substance abuse. So you can find that on the city council agenda. If you're here, you found it at some point. And we will be reporting this to the full council tomorrow at city hall. Again, if anyone wishes to reach out to the city council as a whole, you can email us at citycouncil@somervilleMA.gov. You can email the mayor at mayor@somervilleMA.gov. That concludes our work for the day. I see Councilor Davis had a comment.
Councilor Davis: Yeah, Mr. Chair, before we dispose of these items, I'd like to, if I could just speak briefly. So I actually, I'm not going to kind of speak off the cuff. I just, given there was some confusion at the beginning of the meeting about which items we take it up, I'd like to just read the text of the items that I submitted, at least, that we were discussing here this evening. So that it's clear because I think that there's been a lot of statements about looking at or recognizing that there's a difference between folks who don't have a place to go sleep at night with a roof over their head and drug use in the park. And I just said I wasn't going to try to comment here, but I changed my mind, I am. I think if the first 90 minutes of this meeting pretty clearly recognized that distinction and the bulk of the conversation was about the open substance use and the safety concerns that that poses. And I want to thank everybody who came out. I especially want to thank the people who spoke. I especially want to thank the people who don't spoke because I know that you all have things that you would love to say and want to make sure we're here. And I assure you that I'm reading all of the emails. There's been too many to respond to everyone recently. But any where the mayor hasn't been copied, I've forwarded that along. And I know that many, as I said at the outset, many of you have received responses from the administration, which I also appreciate. We absolutely hear you and I think, I hope it's clear from this meeting that nobody here thinks that there aren't problems, right? That this is an okay situation. I certainly don't feel that way. It's not an okay situation on many levels for everyone involved for various different reasons. And we are faced with the challenge of trying to address all of those different concerns and the root causes and the impacts and the effect on our community writ large and everyone who is a member of that community. So I'm gonna read these three items and I wanna make a couple of requests or one clarification, one request. If you'll indulge me, Mr. Chair. So item number three was submitted by me that the administration update the city council on efforts to open an overdose prevention center. We discussed that earlier and we're gonna leave that in committee. I think it serves its own lengthy conversation. I already went well past time. Item number four submitted by me that the administration update the ward six counselor in writing on efforts to address open substance use in Seven Hills Park and other areas. I will note that if you click into this item, you'll see that we have amended this. This is at the request of the good counselor from ward seven to change ward six counselor to the entire city council. So that amendment is reflected in the record. Item number five by myself, Councilor Wilson and Councilor Burnley. That the administration install or replace needle disposal receptacles in Seven Hills Park and other areas with secure, appropriately designed equipment. Those were all the items that I submitted. And there's some similar items that Councilor Pena Newfeld submitted. We acknowledged at our last meeting that we probably should have collaborated a little better to consolidate. But you'll notice there's no mention of unhoused folks in any of those requests. So I wanna make that point to emphasize that I hear you. We're on the same page. We agree that this is the primary concern and the primary safety issues are related to substance use in the square. And I think the bulk of our conversation, our efforts to address that, there's a lot of overlap with reaching out to folks who also may be unhoused and providing services. And that's why you've heard a lot of that discussion. But speaking for myself, at least there's no confusion there, that these are the same issue in any way. The other thing I wanted to just, I guess, ask through you, Mr. Chair, to liaison Hutter is in regards to that item four for response and writing. I don't think I've seen that. I mean, I certainly have seen email responses to many, many people. And as I think I said back in August, I assume the written response would be pretty similar along the same lines. But I don't think I've seen a formal response to that. And I would like that to be submitted.
Chair: And if you have submitted it and I missed it, I apologize, but I also don't see it on the record. So I'd like there to be a response in writing to the city council. And I'd like that to be submitted and attached to this item. So for that reason, Mr. Chair, I don't know the exact procedure, but we may need to leave, I'll defer to the good clerk. But if we need to leave that item open in committee so that a written response can be, well, actually, in fact, you know what? I do want to leave it open until we do receive a written response, until it is attached.
Councilor De La Salle: I'll add to Councilor De La Salle. So I have a generic address homelessness order that is not on the agenda. So we might as well keep your items on just so we don't have to submit another order in the future.
Chair: Yeah, again, I'm fine with however you wish to proceed on that, Mr. Chair. I think, you know, with the exception of item four, we had a robust conversation about the other two. And I'm happy to resubmit if we, you know, but I think, you know, well, you know, I actually, again, recognizing the distinction between the generic item regarding homelessness, and I want to hear when we get an update on the SHARP disposals, you know, at least those two, I think item three is the over-expiration center. So that's less, you know, that we already said we're going to keep that in committee. So I'm happy to proceed however you like, but I would like to, certainly like to just clarify if, you know, if to whatever extent we've gotten that written response from the administration, I would request that the administration submit that formally and have it attached to this item. Thank you.
Chair: Okay, thank you. Liaison, do you have any comment? It sounds like we just need to get a written response.
Liaison: Thank you, Chair. I am happy to provide. I will be making sure there is a written update to this council on any changes coming forth, and especially on the update for the SHARP's box. I know the night this item was submitted, we had also submitted a separate item from the administration on, oh, actually, you know, you're correct, counselor. We sent it to the council. We did not submit it as an item, but I'm happy to both send the initial email and what we are preparing, which is an updated email. So I can make sure both of those communications get attached to this item. Thank you.
Chair: Thank you. And liaison, if we could also add to number of overdoses in the park. We'll say, let's go with the park specifically, as well as needles picked up both in containers and outside of containers. Councilor Davis.
Councilor Davis: No, I was just giving the thumbs up to liaison Hunter to say thank you for submitting those items for attachment.
Chair: Thank you. So I think we will leave these items in committee so that we can go back and discuss them again without a second order. Any further discussion from the committee? All right, so Councilor Davis' order, so remaining committee, basically all of them are remaining committee. Please mark we're complete the items regarding ISD. And I think we're done. Seeing no further discussion, Councilor Davis calls to adjourn. Let's call the roll on adjournment.
Clerk: Mr. Chair, excuse me, item six, seven, and eight.
Chair: Those are the safe consumption site ones?
Clerk: No, those are seven hills.
Chair: Those are the ISD?
Clerk: No, those are the needles. The ones that Councilor Panetta was speaking on.
Chair: Yeah, let's keep those in committee too.
Clerk: Okay.
Chair: Okay, on adjournment, Councilor Syed?
Councilor Syed: Yes.
Chair: Councilor Davis?
Councilor Davis: Yes.
Chair: And Councilor McLaughlin?
Councilor McLaughlin: Yes.
Clerk: Mr. Chair, all members have voted to adjourn. We are adjourned.
Chair: All right, good night everyone, thank you.